Your Joyful Order With Leslie Martinez
Ever wish you had your own personal cheerleader or coach in your ear, whispering encouraging words? Telling you how to kick butt in life, plus showing you how to get there? That’s exactly what you’ll get when you tune into Your Joyful Order Podcast. Each week you’ll get a mixture of preaching and teaching from your host Leslie Martinez who is a Certified Life Coach, Business Owner, Wife and Mom. Listen along for some entertaining real talk about life, business and relationships. Leslie wants to help you to reach your goals and motivate you to live out your God given purpose, by bringing you insightful knowledge, resources and sharing some tips and tricks to take action. No topic is off the table here, just know that faith will always be the foundation of our conversations and an occasional kick in the butt might come in the most loving way! Get ready to take your life to the next level and learn how to chase joy!
Your Joyful Order With Leslie Martinez
#75 The Laughter and Tears Behind 22 Years of Ministry
When my husband, Steve, and I tied the knot, we also joined forces in a 22-year ministry journey that has been anything but ordinary. Join me & Steve as we share the laughter and the tears that have paved the road of our life in service to others. From boisterous Facebook Live sales to the quiet, impactful moments that happen behind closed doors, our ministry goes beyond church walls, encompassing community involvement and meaningful everyday encounters. This episode is a heartfelt reflection on our shared path, a candid look at the joys, challenges, and lessons learned as we've embraced the call to serve with authenticity and joy.
Balancing church commitments with the demands of family life is a tightrope walk that has seen us stumble and soar. In this episode, we share personal stories of prioritizing our children over church duties, finding humor in parenting missteps, and making tough decisions to step back from church positions for the sake of our family. Celebrating the beauty and lessons of children’s ministry, we discuss how service has been seamlessly stitched into the fabric of our family life, ensuring our kids grow with an understanding of faith, service, and love. Join us for an honest conversation that promises to resonate with anyone who seeks to navigate the intersection of faith, service, and family with grace and laughter.
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Email: lmartinez@yourjoyfulorder.com
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Hey everyone, I'm Leslie Martinez and you're listening to your Joyful Order podcast. Each week I will bring you joyful stories that will motivate and inspire you and, at the same time, bring order to your everyday life. Let's just say the show will be a mixture of preaching and teaching, with a kick of motivation from your girl here. Welcome to your joyful order podcast. Hey friend. Welcome back to another episode of your joyful order podcast. Today I have I guess I have to say he's my favorite guest I do everything with him and I even sleep with him.
Speaker 1:So back by popular demand, is my wonderful husband, Steve, who is always behind the scenes. But y'all, the last episode that we did together, you guys like we got so much feedback from it. We had so many people DM me and say we love that episode. You have to do more together. So here we are. It was a goal that I said hey, I think we got something going here. And of course, we got something going here because we've been married for so long. But I think it's fun for people to get an inside track of just how we work together. And today's conversation is actually going to be about what we have done in serving and in ministry for 22 years and giving a little bit of insight to that. So, my wonderful husband, thank you for being on the podcast again.
Speaker 2:Howdy.
Speaker 1:Howdy. What the heck is howdy? Who says howdy, howdy?
Speaker 2:You know, one of the things that we have to do with this one, that we didn't do with the other one, and I I kind of want to go back to the other one and and just do the video, but like the video recap, but we have to have to have to do the video recap on this one we have to, and it has to start with howdy howdy uh, in case you haven't like figured it out, steve is used to being behind the scenes, so he sometimes gets a little awkward in speaking, like he's like oh, um, anyhow.
Speaker 1:So for the audience those of you there I know there are some of you we have family and friends that listen. There are new people that are following, there are people that have been following us for years. But you and I, for my clothing business that I used to run, we used to do Thursday night lives together and during those Thursday night lives we would do a live sale on Facebook and you and I we did games, we did challenges, we just like sold clothes. Steve was always kind of in the background, engaging, like running the chat and helping me to keep everything organized, but he and I always were, like you know, had the antics going on and people loved our Thursday night lives. So this isn't something new that we have done before. People were just so glad to hear that, like you guys were doing something back together, cause I often, very many times, get I miss watching you guys live together, so we're not live.
Speaker 1:Some of this is edited. I'm going to say edit out. Some of this is edited. I'm gonna say we edit out some of the stuff, but yeah, but no, no, but we're definitely keeping the howdy in so y'all can see how cheesy we can be. But I want us to dive and then we have to throw in some bloopers, but so see, being live. This was the cheesy stuff that you just got live. That you're like they're freaking hilarious. Steve and I are very cheesy people, just so you know.
Speaker 2:Unedited.
Speaker 1:Unedited. Yes, and, in case you don't know, we might like we're very filtered when it comes to platforms like this. I don't think we've really cursed during our lives or here on this platform. We don't curse. But Steve and I may drop an occasional you know bomb here or there in our own unfiltered ways in conversations between he and I. But we try to keep everything here on the platform like clean for y'all. But if we're just being real, we're real people and unfiltered conversations with us, you know, are very much that unfiltered. So, okay, hubby, we're going to dive into the conversation of ministry. So we've got to kind of just shift kind of our perspective here, because I want to have a serious conversation but then kind of add in some fun stories and stuff that we have had. But we have been in ministry for 22 years and I just want to, uh, kind of for the context of the conversation we're about to go into, I want to say that ministry is very different in all kinds of different ways.
Speaker 1:Ministry does not mean that you are in the church serving. Ministry means that you are serving God's people that were sent to you and that could be serving. We have served in very many different areas, from not just the church but on the baseball field, on the football field, on the basketball courts, on the sidelines, like in our community, serving on various boards in the school districts, out in all kinds of different ways. We have served our community, we have served our schools, we have served our church. So when we refer to ministry, it is all of that and I want our listeners to know that again, ministry is not confined to church walls. Ministry could be the person that you are talking to and praying with at work. I want for us to just kind of share how we got into ministry, but I want to ask you first when did you feel the calling for you to get into ministry and start serving? I know we were kind of together in this, but I want you to share that story.
Speaker 2:Uh, I guess I kind of just went with you. I was like, okay, I'm going to go ahead and serve with you, because I remember the church that we were at it was we were serving the Saturday night service and there was like first through sixth grade in this room of a bunch of kids and and I was just like, yeah, you know, it's time for us to do something together, and and and I, I guess it was shortly after we got married, maybe a year or so after we got married so yes that was fun.
Speaker 2:That was really fun because we planned bible teachings for ages or grades first through sixth yeah right yeah, yeah, we, we started going to church together.
Speaker 1:We wanted to get connected and plugged in. Um, at the time I was working with kids already. I was doing children's programming, working for a city in the recreation department, and Steve had worked in the recreation department too. You weren't working rec at that time, right? No, cause this was when we were married already. Yeah, you had already, like, started a big boy job because we were married and we just, you know, we both had a passion in working with kids and we just kind of dived in. They I almost want to say they had like a kind of a a pulpit calling for children's volunteers and we're like, hey, let's do it on Saturday nights. We have nothing else to do on Saturday nights instead of going out partying and doing what regular 20 somethings year olds were at that time 22 year olds probably right 2023, 24 year old, somewhere around there.
Speaker 2:Yeah um, and it was every Saturday, right, or was it we?
Speaker 1:I don't think we did every. Saturday to start. I think we kind of were like on a every other week basis or something, but then it did grow to every Saturday because they had nobody else. But yeah, we would have first through sixth graders in one room and we were given like a handout, just a sheet of paper with like a main point of Bible scripture and like that's it, and we were half. We had to creatively come up with a lesson to teach them, Right.
Speaker 2:And this is before Noah, so it was definitely before 2005. So probably 2003 ish.
Speaker 1:Yeah, two, but it was probably about actually so early 2000s that we started and that's where we started our ministry and this was back at at our, our church had not even built out like half of the building yet. They were just in the midst, they were under construction of building the whole new children's wing there and the pastor at the time he walked us through like the construction Do you remember that? And he laid out like, okay, you're standing in what is going to be called the kids theater and we saw like just like these load bearing walls and columns and just this wide open like construction space. We probably should have been wearing a hard hat I don't think we were, but we were in this construction area and the children's pastor at that time just gave us a vision of what was to come. And I don't know, do you want to speak on maybe some of that vision that he gave us? That maybe sparked why we chose children's ministry.
Speaker 2:I think for me it was starting our new chapter together and then also being able to start this other chapter at the church together, not only with you and me, but the actual church, church too. I think that was. That was a cool thing about it. And I mean, as far as specifics, I don't remember. All I remember is walking through and and I mean mean it was kind of scary because because it's, it's really hard at that age we were like 15 I'm just kidding, we weren't 15, we were like 22 ish, 23, and you know to walk through a building that is like super wide open and and to know that they were like there's going to be hundreds, and I guess I, I guess hundreds of kids. There wasn't thousands, right? Or was there thousands?
Speaker 1:There were thousands, but not at one time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like every server consolidated.
Speaker 1:So I think having that bigger picture though, like Steve said, of we were part of the foundation, of seeing this whole children's wing get built out for our church, laying the foundation of the new opportunities that were to come for the children's ministry there and that was, I think, the catalyst for us is that we just got that kind of spark of God wants us to be a part of this and we just went with it and from there go ahead.
Speaker 2:I was going to say, kind of like your story about Africa, you're like, yeah, god wants to be to be a part of it, so we're just going to go with it. It was like roughly the same time oh, yeah, it, it totally was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, I mean, we, we started serving in like 2020, I want to say 2021, 22 ish, maybe the end of 21, right after we got married. Um 2022. We went to africa in 2024 and oftentimes the the way Steve and I work, I have these crazy ideas and I'm like, hey, babe, let's do this together. And he's like, okay, let's go. And we just kind of, you know, trek along.
Speaker 1:Just like I was like, hey, I want to go to Africa and I want to go plant gardens, and Steve's like, uh, okay, but how are you going to pay for it? I was like, hey, I want to go to Africa and I want to go plant gardens. And Steve's like, uh, okay, but how are you going to pay for it? I was like, well, my favorite, I don't know how you're getting there, uh, but I think kind of the same thing with children's ministry, like they had a need, and I was like, hey, let's do this. And he was like, okay, uh, but I, I think with that, I think Steve had a very good example of serving from your parents, right?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, like my parents actually, so they, they would, they would. So instead of, this is probably going way back, but instead of like the Girl Scouts, it was. It was a co-ed group called Campfire and my mom and dad would take this group and we would do campouts, like in our backyard, we would go to the observatory, the Rio Hondo observatory, we would go to like the beach and stuff like that, and it was. We were all part of this group and I guess, yeah, I, I did get that from my mom and dad.
Speaker 1:And this is the first time that you have ever shared that story, that you were part of that. I never knew that. I was just like, yeah, you never told me that, that you guys were part of that group or whatever. I just know your parents were always part, like serving in the community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I had I. I rocked the mullet with my cool little best and blue shorts and my white socks with the blue stripes on it and blue shorts and my white socks with the blue stripes on it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so for the video we're going to have to flash that picture up of Steve. I know what picture he's talking about. That will that will have to be flashed up in the video here so you guys can see how cool Steve looked as a little kid in his little campfire group. Never knew he was part of.
Speaker 1:I thought you were going to say it like you're like it's kind of like the girl Scouts, but it wasn't like I was going to say. I knew you were not in the boy Scouts, so where is this coming from?
Speaker 2:But yeah, no, it was definitely not in the boy Scouts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but your parents served faithfully in the community. Your parents volunteered and they did a lot of uh, community, community stuff. So you have that example kind of laid out for you. I just had a passion and I was like I want to go for it. My, my parents didn't have that Uh, they didn't really like serve much or anything. I don't want to say it came from my parents For me, it just came from God, where I was like let's do this and Steve's like okay, yeah, let's do it. Now. In in ministry, our roles definitely have have changed. From being a classroom teacher I was children's director, steve was ministry leader. In in that, just the changes that kind of in our ministry roles and stuff. How do you think we navigated through some of those changes? What are some of the challenges that you think we faced in just transitioning the roles that we did?
Speaker 2:Well, first I'm going to say we're of the challenges, are learning to, to adapt to this generation below us, versus being able to, to kind of dictate where we go with, with the, with the kid or, you know, with the child. That's like, I don't know, four or five years old, where you have more control, the situation and and and you actually have like literally three to five minutes of their attention, and then it's like you got to start all over again, three to five minutes and you're constantly going and going and going. Now it's you can actually have like 10 to 15 minute conversations with these young adults, um and so. So I guess a challenge for for me would be, um, trying to keep up with the lingo. Like I, I felt really old, like a couple weeks ago when somebody said dad fit. I've heard of the dad bod, but I've never heard of the dad fit, and I was like what the heck is that? Like, what's a dad fit? Like? I even asked Leslie like what is a dad fit? Is it like a workout?
Speaker 2:and and I come to find out it's an outfit that a dad wears it's the new balance cargo shorts yeah, that has been super challenging for me is trying to to adapt to that lingo, and I guess I know how my mom and dad felt, you know. But but I guess, like for me, I think that's the hardest thing is adapting to the lingo and being able to have conversations about life. That is kind of just starting where we're like 10 to 20 years, beyond that in some cases yes, I. I hate to say that.
Speaker 1:I think one of the biggest challenges for me definitely has been not and the lingo hasn't been a challenge Like that's been fun, because I'm like oh, what does this mean? And I feel hip when I learn like what the new lingo is. But I think and I may totally come off like this may come off a little harsh the younger generation, generation there are different work ethic there.
Speaker 1:There are some challenges that come with staying focused to what god called them to do, and that's not all, all of them. Um, there is a kind of victimized mindset that I think is coming from a younger generation, and I don't want to pinpoint just the younger generation. I think there is a victim mindset that is evolving just within the church, and seeing this has been very eye-opening in how we approach ministry, because I feel like there are certain conversations that can't be said without offending people and, being me the kind of blunt person that I am, I think the challenge has been it's been a challenge in that that victim mindset is, within it's more prevalent within the church now, so to say. The good side of that challenge is that it has allowed me to go deeper in understanding why people have this mindset, wanting to help the people that have this mindset. It's also causing me to re-evaluate how I talk about certain things in ministry, if that makes any sense. It has definitely been challenging in seeing we can even go pre-pandemic versus post-pandemic. Church after the pandemic has been very different and and I want to speak to terms of that, I'm talking post-pandemic, now that there has within the church, a lot of people are coming in really hurt and having that weight of just being the victim, that everything is against them, that no one is for them. And it's also encouraging because it's like we get the opportunity to teach them and say, no, but God is for you, but this is what God can do. But it's really hard to get to shift that mindset when people are in that victim mindset.
Speaker 1:And it reminds me of the story of Jesus, uh, of the, the uh, paralyzed man by the healing waters who he sat there for like 30 something years and was like nobody is helping me, into the waters Right when Jesus came. He's like oh, jesus, please heal me. And Jesus was like you know, why have you been sitting there for so long? And his story was nobody's helped me. Everybody walks past me and goes in and gets their healing. And he sat there pathetically waiting for someone to carry him in for so many years.
Speaker 1:And then Jesus came and just said you know, be healed, pick up your mat and walk. And was like go, stop being a victim. You know and I feel that that's what we're seeing more in the church now is the people laying by the waters on their mat and just waiting for someone to come and pick them up and it's like no, you have to like crawl roll, ask for help. People are afraid to ask for help now, and I think that's been the biggest challenge in the church, because when we came up in the church it was like people, people figure stuff out you know people were on fire for Jesus and it was like, all right, god's giving me the strength to do this, god's giving me the strength.
Speaker 1:And then we still see that now. Don't get me wrong, we still see that now. But I feel like we've been seeing a little bit more of the people by the healing waters, versus the Joshua's or the Moses's or the Gideon's that are just like all right, god, let let's roll, let's roll. And that's where, like, I think we need to see more revival in church and it's it's a burden that I think has been having on my heart too, and that's why I feel so passionate about like reaching the younger generation and even like getting into the schools and doing all this stuff. But a lot of it goes to the mindset that some of the generation has been dealing with, and the pandemic, I think, had a big part of that. You know, I think there's a lot of people and I don't just want to say the generation younger than us, I think, in general, just the generation that's in the church and that goes to your millennials, your Gen X, your baby boomers there is just this kind of victim mindset of the man by the water is like no, I need somebody to help me, and trying to reach that generation I think has been one of the biggest challenges that I've seen. Yeah, anyhow, that was kind of deep right, a little too deep, but I want the listeners to know an important thing and that is that our faith in God is what gives us the strength to navigate the challenges that are posed in the church, in the communities, in the schools. Any of that, and in me referencing seeing this, this is just what God has opened my eyes recently on in like what challenges are faced with ministry. Sometimes we carry a burden of what God reveals to us, but he also reveals that to us so that we can make an impact. And that's what's been heavy on my heart as I've been maturing and growing in my walk with God and I know Steve can speak on his own calling of that as, as I have, you know, matured, god has started to reveal and, like, make me more sensitive to notice things, and I feel that that has been one of the more challenging things. And in our roles and as I might carry the weight of something different, steve may be carrying the weight like I'm carrying, I feel, that weight of these people who have that kind of victim mindset and mentality and Steve could be carrying the weight for something totally different. You know, um, and I think that's maybe a challenge and we each can speak to that, but I don't, I don't think I've ever shared that with Steve.
Speaker 1:How I feel that, that's where I see the church or anything, how I feel like I'm carrying that weight, um, and Steve can speak differently about that, of what he may may feel that his his role and maybe a different weight that God put on his heart, but that's where, together, um, we, you know, if I come to Steve and I'm like, hey, I really feel this and this is what I feel, like I'm being called to do, steve's right behind me, doing it, and Steve has shared before like he's, like I feel that God put me here. I'll let you, I'll let you share that part of what you have said, why the role that you feel that God has put you here to do in supporting me.
Speaker 2:I had told Les a while back that God put me in her life to basically help build the bridges that were torn down in her past, and I think I've become really good at building bridges, and they haven't been for just us specifically, but they've been for, I guess you could say, our ministry, whether it's for us at church or us at home. They're they're built bridges, that that we continue to build, and I'm not only building myself, but you know we're building them together and and I and I'm here to build bridges for us.
Speaker 1:And that's exactly what he has done. Like my whole podcast idea, babe, I really feel in my heart that God is telling me to put this podcast and really start sharing and using this as a tool to reach others and help them. And he's like, okay, let's figure out how to build this. And that's what he does. He helps to build and support everything. He's the backbone. Let's just put it that way. He's the backbone, but I have these like crazy ideas. And then he's just like, okay, let's go with it.
Speaker 1:I think he's come up with a few of his own crazy ideas himself to, um, this whole creative stuff that we do now. That's, that's all him. 100%, steve. And, believe it or not, he has used the camera in many ways to serve God and you you know, people that are listening may not think that their skill or talent can be used to serve God, but it does. And let's talk about a little bit. I want to kind of shift gears a little bit here, because I think it's important for people to know this part, because this is something that we both have experienced significantly in serving and being part of ministry is experiencing burnout and what that looks like for each of us, and how did we overcome that burnout when we were in ministry together?
Speaker 2:well for me. I really like football and and it just so happens that football is played on Sundays, so there was a really long stretch where we didn't really watch a football game, like, if anything, we watch the Monday night football and maybe the Sunday night football, but but like number one, that's that's. That's a way for me to burn out is not being able to watch football, even though, you know, sometimes the games aren't that that good. I, it's something for me to just veg out to, and I think that you know, ultimately, when, when we were doing children's ministry, I seriously don't know how I didn't get burnt out faster because we were there, I guess you can say Wednesday, saturday and Sundays, and, and, and I, in reality we should have got burnt out, but I think it's because we were young and and and you know, at the end of the day, I kind of see what Leslie's talking about, where you know, at the end of the day, I kind of see what Leslie's talking about, where you know, we didn't really have a Sabbath, and I mean because Saturdays and Sundays were at church and then I went to work on Mondays.
Speaker 2:I mean Leslie may have had a partial of her Monday off, but I mean like we were still going like almost seven days a week and and I know today, you know there's a lot of um, that Leslie, that Leslie knows how I feel about the whole self-love thing and self-care, and I'm like just get up, like, come on and and I guess that's that's kind of where Leslie was going with that is, I'm so like we don't get a day off and I know that like that's that is really different from the perspective of the generations that are coming up now is that you know, they know I got to have a Sabbath, I got to have some days off and stuff like that, and I get that and that's important. And I realize now that that's super important for me to continue to grow and to continue to make progress. And I think I didn't take advantage of that when I was younger. Now I know, like Leslie said, we have boundaries. We set up boundaries to make sure that we do not get burnout.
Speaker 2:But as far as the burnout, for me I just don't want to do anything At the end of the day. When I get burnt out, especially like in ministry, I'm like, yeah, I'm good, I don't want to do it and that's just me walking away. I'm like I'm good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, steve knows I completely burnt out Like I when you, when I was working in ministry this this is me working in ministry yeah, it was given two weekends off a year for the first five years and then the fifth year I gained a third week of vacation. So then I got three weekends off a year. So I was only allotted the amount of weeks that I had a vacation a weekend off, if that makes sense. So when I started the job I had two weeks of vacation, which meant I can only take two weekends off. And then I earned my fifth year which gave me an extra week. So out of 52 weeks for the first five years I only had two weekends off.
Speaker 1:I had to work every Saturday night, every Sunday. We missed family events, we missed birthday parties, we missed holidays with our family, we missed weddings, like I missed a really good friends. I missed a few really good friends weddings because they were on Saturday nights and I couldn't take it off. I had to choose how to use my only two weekends that I would get off a year and I used it for pretty much my family, for vacation, for us.
Speaker 2:I was like, okay, this is the way Vacation or the kids' birthdays.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I did. Yeah, literally, I think I did. Or like the birthday parties we would have, we'd have to make sure that we did them during the day, um, or we'd be racing home on a Sunday after church to set everything up to have people over our house for like a four o'clock party. You know it. Just it was crazy. All so burnout and having two young kids, like it was the real deal, and it burnt out so much. Where I've shared this so many times, I lost my identity.
Speaker 1:Steve even was just like what's wrong with you? Like he thought there was so much strife between our marriage during that time because I was completely burnt out. And, as you heard, steve, he's just like you, just keep going, you just keep going. You know, and we had our fallout with that too. And he knows now, like he knows, like I need that time to rest, I need a Sabbath. He knows when I start to get overwhelmed like I completely shut down, I just shut down. Steve is like a robot. He or I would say no, he's like the energizer bunny. He just keeps going, going, going, going, no matter what comes his way, and he's very, very self-disciplined in maintaining that level. He just goes and I can't do that. That's not me, and we have learned to kind of balance each other out and he has gotten a lot better at not being such a workhorse. But the burnout is real. And I think one thing that I have seen also and this is just being 22 years of marriage Well, not just marriage, but 22 years of ministry and this is one thing that I found a lot in the church, even in the community, in people serving in the schools and everywhere that we have served.
Speaker 1:But there are people that are there 24, seven serving, like they're there every service, they're at every like. I've seen parents in the in the school community that they're on every single board, they're on more than one PTA, which I didn't even know you could do. I thought you can only be on the PTA where your kid goes to school, but apparently that's not it. Like there's parents that they're on three different PTAs for three different schools. They're just so consumed with serving and ministry which you think that's great, that's fabulous. These people, they just want to serve the community, they want to serve the church.
Speaker 1:But then there's an underlying reason as to why they're doing that because they're avoiding being at home, because their home life is not in order, because their marriage is falling apart, maybe their kids are leaving and they're empty nesters and they just don't want to give up those kids, like that you know kind of phase of life that they were in. And there's a lot of stuff going on in the inside that these people are trying to avoid, so they keep themselves so busy like going, going, going. And that's in being in these different areas that I started to see, like we started to see people at every single, like any area that you can sign up at church and serve. They were doing it. Why were they doing it? Because their home life was not a good place to be at. And what better place to be at than church when your home life is a wreck? Right, of course we want I mean we wanted the people there, but at the end of the day you gotta, you gotta fix what's wrong.
Speaker 1:You can't just keep coming to church and serving, and serving and serving, because eventually these people get burned out. Eventually I got burned out and then you had to look at what's broke and how do I fix it. I had serious burnout. I completely lost my identity. I was striving to be a people pleaser and a little misperfectionist and I had to fix that. I had to walk away from that. So I think those were some huge challenges in that we did. But Steve touched upon something really good is that we had to learn to create boundaries. And can you just kind of touch upon that a little bit, babe, on how we had to create boundaries about like with serving, with church and all of that for our family.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I'm thinking as you're saying and talking through some of your challenges. I'm just thinking that was actually one of my challenge and, as Leslie said, like if I'm going to go in, I'm going to go in and I had to realize that my all-in wasn't doing every weekend. My all-in was actually, you know know, doing whatever we set up our, whatever the schedule we set up, and and it was primarily because we need time together, like even if it's like waking up late on a Sunday, that's the we need time. Or us going hiking on a Sunday, that's the we need time. And and going back to what Leslie said about the whole ministry thing, the ministry isn't just at church, like it could be. It could just be with your spouse. At the end of the day, it could just be with your spouse and and I you know it's a lot of times you know it's like, okay, we're going to wake up and go for a hike, but we're not just hiking, like we're actually enjoying being wherever we are, the location and being together.
Speaker 2:And you know, walking faster than we did before I mean that's, that's just a way for us to do ministry and and so now, as far as us setting up boundaries I Leslie's really good at setting up boundaries I'm just go, go, go, but I but, but I, I followed her lead on this one and I said, okay, you know what you, you go ahead and at the end of the day, I don't. I don't mess with my schedule, that Leslie sets a schedule. The only schedule that I really really worry about is my schedule at work and other than that, like, my schedule at home and at church is taken care of less, because my little brain can't handle multiple schedules and and I know that, like, for me, like that was that was huge, because, because I gave that up, I I said, okay, I'm gonna give this up, I'm gonna give my schedule up, but I'm also going to give that whole fact of me wanting to do every weekend up because I know how important it is, uh, just for us, for me and Leslie. Now, the kids are, our two boys are, they're a benefactor of it. But at the end of the day, you know, I think we have to reevaluate the season where we're at today versus the season where we were at 22 years ago we were doing it together and and, and we were having fun together. And now, like, we're at a season where we can continue to do it together but also do it separately.
Speaker 2:And and I think part of that is, leslie has small groups at our house like every let's call it every, every other Tuesday or whatever and and part of my ministry for that time is I go take the dogs or the dog out while she does ministry and like with that small group and, and at first I was, you know, I'm thinking, ah, this is stupid, why am I babysitting the dog?
Speaker 2:But but it's like, really, if you think about it, I'm allowing, I'm giving this space to this group of women to be able to come together, fellowship and like do god, like do do ministry together.
Speaker 2:Yes, but yeah, that's kind of my boundaries and and I think that's, if anything, I I thank leslie for helping me create those boundaries uh, because I will just go, go, go, go. But we have to understand our strengths and our weakness, and that's probably one of my weaknesses is just being able to go, go, go, go, and then I sleep when I sleep, but instead today I'm go, go, go at a different pace and we actually enjoy life or enjoy Sundays every other Sunday and and you know we would all we would joke back when we let's call it when we first started and we were doing every you know, wednesday, saturday, sundays. I wonder what it feels like to actually, like wake up late on Sunday, because it wasn't a wake-up late, like she was out of the house by probably six and then I was out of the house with the boys getting them ready, like and I'm gonna be real with you guys.
Speaker 2:Like I was probably like the boys probably ate me until this date. Like well, let's put it this way, they, they probably would rather not have got ready with me, they probably would have rather got ready with Leslie. But I was like, okay, boys, you got 10 minutes. 10 minutes, we got to do this, this and this and that because I don't want to be late. I don't want to be late, like, and one time we were going, we were flying to church. We were driving from Norwalk to Covina, I got pulled over by a CHP Jacob's like screaming in the back because he don't want to be in his car seat and I I roll my window down. I'm like, how can I help you? Like I got this kid screaming. I'm trying to get to church. Like what do you want? Well, your taillights out. I'm like that's cool, thanks. Like anything else, like I'm not hurting nobody, I'm just ready to go. And and that was that's me. Go, go, go, go, go. And I ended up getting a ticket.
Speaker 1:So like, go figure if you guys didn't listen to the other episode of me and steve.
Speaker 2:Just remember road rage I was like come on, what are you doing?
Speaker 1:like I gotta go about to have road rage with the chp officer that pulled him over because he's he's um speeding to church. Okay, uh, anyway again. But but I, I think you said I think the boys probably hate me to this day. I don't think they. They don't hate you, my dear, no that's why I rephrased it.
Speaker 1:No, I know but I think the boys needed that discipline though too. Uh, so I think it was a good discipline to instill of them of like orderly drill sergeant, like come on, get your butt going. Um, I think one of our sons needs that now just to get his butt up from school, so that same son.
Speaker 2:I remember one time he comes out he has his tennis shoes on. He's in his underwear and no shirt. I'm like so what's happening? He's like I'm ready to go to church. I I'm like, no, you're not. Go put some clothes on. What are you talking about? You've taken this long to come out in your shoes and your underwear. Like dude, let's go. And I'll tell you, like Sundays were super stressful for me. They were, they were very stressful, let's put it that way. Like and to be on, like, looking back, oh well, I'm going to gonna be late. Like at the end of the day, it's like, oh well, I'm gonna be late. And, and Leslie, like till this day, like I'm super like anal about trying not to be late, especially if I have to drive. Far right, we were. It was probably 30 40 minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a 30 40 minute route yeah, that was for what the first, like seven years, something like that.
Speaker 2:I think that, yeah it was a really long seven years, because I like I'm just like come on, boys, let's go, we gotta go, we gotta go, we gotta and that, like that's that. And you could just imagine I know Leslie hates it when I get like that, but like every Sunday they probably like, they're like oh god, it's Sunday, we gotta go to church. This guy's going crazy. So here's the here's.
Speaker 1:The funny part is that, so Steve would get to church. We have the 8 30 service, right? I had to be at church by like 7 to set up, so I was leaving by like 6 30 ish around there, right, so Steve, we, we would sit in the 830 service together. So here comes Steve rolling up with the kids, like making sure that they're all set, put them into their classroom, we get them checked in, and I'm waiting for him.
Speaker 1:And sometimes, yeah, he's running late and I'm like, oh man, where is he? And here we are about to walk into the sanctuary together and he is about to lose his ish Like. I can see in his face that he's frustrated, he's frazzled. And I'm trying to be all nice, we're at church. I'm like, oh, hi, babe, give him a hug, a kiss. And he's like like getting the tags, like really like smacking them on the kid's back, like he's like ready to just like. And here we are about to walk into church together and supposed to be all like. You know, oh, we're the happy couple that lead at church here, and he's about to like murder children and probably like, and then he would have like a chip on his shoulder towards me because I'm I'm working Cause it's my fault, he has to do it.
Speaker 2:Why do I?
Speaker 1:have to work, why do you have to be here so early on Sundays, why do I have to get the boys by myself? So so there was definitely that, that tension that was there and a lot of that is what kind of led to me resigning and walking away from that position, because the strife that it caused not just on our marriage, our family, me at the end of the day, it wasn't a healthy situation for us overall. So I eventually, you know, walked away from that. However, I want to emphasize this that your family, your family of origin, is your first priority as a ministry, and I think that is something that we early on decided is that, at the end of the day, I need to serve my family before I need to serve these people at church, before I need to serve these people in the community, before I need to serve these people at school. And if that means that I need to say no to people at the church, then that means I'm going to say no to the people at the church and I don't want anybody to take this out of context like creating boundaries and this is just going and creating boundaries. You need to create boundaries that are good for your family. At the end of the day, steve and I are responsible for each other and we're responsible for the two children that came from our seats, and those are the children that God entrusted us to. When Steve and I set our vows before God, we entrusted each other and we committed to each other, and when we decided to have children and God gave us the honor of being a mother and a father and raising these children, we were indebted to them. I'm not indebted to my pastor, I'm not indebted to a leader at my church. I am indebted to what God birthed in and through me, and those are my children. And I think that's where a lot of people. What I said is that they're not. They feel that their priority is the pastor and serving at church. And no, I need to do everything, I need to be yes, yes, yes, yes At church, but then you're saying no to your kids. Do you know? Part another reason. I mean. I can give you a thousand reasons why I left my job in ministry. One of another one. Steve wasn't joking when he said football. Okay, our son. He got to the age where he wanted to start playing sports like real competitive sports. When are games held? On Saturdays and Sundays. When was I working On Saturdays and Sundays? I did not want my kid to miss out on opportunities because I was busy working and I wasn't going to miss watching my kid play a game.
Speaker 1:I think, between Steve and I, we, we, we always show up for our kid. That is our number one ministry. We always, always, always show up for our children. Between both of our boys we have. We can count between both of us, probably on one hand, how many times we have ever missed a school event, an award ceremony, a sporting event, like anything that our kid needed us to show up for. Between Steve and I, we can count on one hand how many times we actually missed. And if we missed it was because one of us had to be out of town. Um, I remember I missed one of Noah's football games when he was like in fifth or sixth grade, because I went to a convention.
Speaker 1:Um, I think Steve, y'all steep for Noah's senior football banquet. Steve was at a conference that he goes to every year in Sacramento. It was a three-day conference. His banquet was like on day two of him being at that conference. So what Steve did is he flew back home. He was in Sacramento, like, say that Monday he flew back home. On Tuesday evening he attended the banquet, woke up at the crack of dawn the following day to catch a flight to go back to Sacramento. So he took let's see one, two, three, he took four flights because he was not, yes, in three days. He took four flights in three days to Sacramento and back so that he would not miss our son's senior football banquet. And I want to say you've done that before for another football thing or something I don't know.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's why I was like, okay, I'll just do that.
Speaker 1:But and I'm not here to like for us to glow, but just for you to see the boundaries that we have created and the importance of what we put on our family. If you were to ask Steve or I how do you describe your family? What would we say babe?
Speaker 2:Family first.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're family. At the end of the day, it's our family first right day, it's our family first, right.
Speaker 2:and you know, like, going back to the whole boundary thing, I think, to a certain point we realized that we sacrificed our own footing for something that we really couldn't even hold on to, and and and. We had, we had the ministry that we can hold onto at home, but we decided that, hey, you know, we're going to go ahead and give to this other, other way of ministry, and and. Instead we sacrificed our footing at home and and, and it's at the end of the day. I don't think I would, I'll take it back, I wouldn't, I wouldn't. Would I do it over again? I don't think so, because because, at the end of the day, like, we know now that we're not going to do that Like we I'm glad that we went through that because we know, going forward, that it's it's not going to do, we're not going to do that anymore.
Speaker 2:That's that's in the past and we've been there, done that. And at the end of the day, like, even till this day, it's super important for us to sit in service together. It it's. It's just, it's at the end of the day, it's super important. Let's just put it that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's something that we've prioritized, but, like a couple of other things, is that we have looked at, okay, what are other ways that we can?
Speaker 1:serve do ministry, you know, and we shared that before Like I've been on several different boards with the school district. We've done community work. We heck I took, we all went to volunteer at the shelter that was another thing that I drug everyone to and then we winded up coming home with a dog uh, rescuing, rescuing her baby girl, um, but one of the big things that we we have always gone all in in any area that our kids have, you know, been a part of any sport. Like Steve coached Noah in T-ball, he coached him in flag football. Early on I served on the board where he played football. Even as they got into high school, we still stayed involved in that's where Steve's like I want to photograph. I want to have every single one of Noah's games photograph on video, all of this stuff.
Speaker 1:And then Steve became the man on the field, like all the football players know Steve, and they're like Steve, did you get me? Did you get me? You know they're like putting their fingers up their numbers, like all this stuff. They're DMing him, their friends on Instagram with him, because they want their pictures and this was Steve's way of giving back to these kids. You know, hey, I'm your own little personal paparazzi on the sideline, and this was the one thing that Steve drug me into where he's like I want to do this, I need you to be my backup, and I'm just like, okay, so is photography my passion? Absolutely not. I get so frazzled every time I have to pick up a new camera and figure out the dials, but this was Steve's passion and I want to support him in that. And I I surprised myself sometimes when I have a good you know a good shot, or getting the. The action shots are like so crazy intense for me being on the football field, being on the field just being on the field was intense.
Speaker 1:I could not do it when my son, uh, when Noah was on there, because I got so into the game. So he knew like don't ask me to be on the field when, if, if, my kid was playing. Now that he hasn't been playing, I've been standing on the field and it definitely is a different perspective, but I've been there, you know, kind of supporting Steve in that, and it is fun, don't get me wrong. It is fun and I love it, I enjoy it. I surprised myself capturing some good pictures, but that's how we've been able to serve too. We've been able to do that as a ministry and we take these pictures at absolutely no charge to any of these kids or the school. We have done it as a service to our community, to the community that our children have been a part of, and knowing that we do that doesn't make me feel guilty that we're not serving at church every Sunday, every service, for every event that they have. I'm good in saying you know what God has called me to do these different areas of service.
Speaker 1:This podcast is a service and a ministry that we both do. You may see me up in the front of it, but Steve edits every single one of these episodes, the cool little videos that y'all see on Instagram that I use to promote. Steve edits every single one of those. It is a labor of love that we have just served faithfully of what God has put in our hearts to do, of service to other people, and I think over the last 22 years those skills have changed, you know, going from some of the crazy things, but that's what god. We've gone so long already, so I definitely want to wrap up, but but let's just touch upon, let's just kind of end here with some of the crazy fun antics that we used to do and some of the skills that we learned in just serving and and being out there doing the crazy things so.
Speaker 2:But before we get into that, though, I think it's important to just remind everybody that, at the end of the day, and, and we, we talked about just like family first, right, and, but, but I think after that would be our time, our talent and our treasures, and, and, and you know, talk about like what we learned, like we would constantly repeat that to the what. What age were those kids?
Speaker 1:five and six yeah, it was pre-k and kinder, so like four and five year old pre-k and kinder.
Speaker 2:So it was time, talent, treasure, the three t's and and when you think about, like to be honest with you, I never really, really I mean I was doing the whole photography thing. I didn't really see it as ministry. But now, unless you mentioned it, it kind of is right. But because I just like I love it, like I I am like literally with everybody on the field I'm the only one on the field at that moment when I'm taking photos. Like it's so crazy to even think about it that way.
Speaker 2:But but time, talent, treasure, I would say that that's like the one thing that's always been stuck in my head is time, talent, treasure.
Speaker 2:And and if I, if I, if I could say that the the time that we spent together from day one doing children's ministry all the way until the final days, like I'm so glad that we did it and I'm so glad that I was able to walk away with time, talent and treasure. But I'm going to say this attention span of that age group and in some cases, the attention span of some of the adults that I had to deal with on a day-to-day basis, and like they actually prepped me to be able to do board meetings in front of these I don't want to say that in front of gentlemen that are wearing suits super stiffy or stiffy, super stuffy and and like it's so crazy because I I would always go to the place that we did children's ministry every time I had to do a board meeting. I was there every time I had to do board meeting and I was speaking to kids, but there was actually adults in the in the audience.
Speaker 1:We learned how to capture an audience, that's for sure. And I mean God, we know God is so good, but God knew what he was doing in putting us where we were at that time and that season in our life. Because not only did we and I laugh so much in thinking about this and I shared an episode before too about thinking about how just some of the lessons I learned in being in children's ministry but at the time when we had got into children's ministry, we were primarily working with elementary kids and then, when the job came open, it was to be the director of the early childhood director, which is like nursery through um kinder, and I'm like I've never worked with pre-K kids before. What are you talking about? I mean, we had our own toddler at the time, you know, and I'm like, but I've only worked with elementary kids. I've run programming for elementary junior high kids.
Speaker 1:Like you're going to give me a child baby. Like I have to change diapers. But, good Lord, keeping the attention span of a three or four year old, like that is some of the most challenging things that I've ever done. And I wonder, like so many of these pastors that are engaging and up on the stage and doing these messages and stuff. I would love to see some of these pastors or leaders go into early childhood class and try to facilitate a lesson for two year olds or three year olds or four year olds.
Speaker 2:Because you're like, oh, I'm losing them.
Speaker 1:Honestly, like we did that for freaking nine years straight, like, and I'm like good lord, there's so many I I mean, I could. I could literally write a book on the lessons learned from that and who knows, maybe I will write a book one day about that.
Speaker 2:But just the patient stopping and taking the wiggles out oh we.
Speaker 1:I mean you had to run these kids, you know, and dealing changing diapers, like the smells that were executed from these two-year-olds. That just so many lessons there Steve and I have approached our marriage and just doing ministry together has been. What lessons are we taking away from this and how are we applying this to our family and our life? We instilled in our kids all time tell and treasure and we tell them that now. I just had a conversation with my son.
Speaker 1:He just got his first real job where taxes are being taken out and you know, he's having to do all these things and I had to tell him like, okay, my dear, this is how you need to break up your paycheck. You need to put this much away for this. And I reminded him of giving not just a 10th, like you want to put aside your 10th, but you also need to look at investing. Like how, how are you going to be of service to your customers? How are you going to serve them, how are you going to create good relationships with them so that you can keep, you know, just a good relationship? And reminding that time, talent, treasure, kind of thing. You know you got to give people your time. You got to learn to do the skills, and I'm seeing his skills.
Speaker 1:He was just home for the other weekend and hearing him on some of his sales calls. I'm seeing some of those skills and his talents and I'm like, hey, I'm pretty proud of this kid, what he's picked up from us, you know, and the time, talent and his treasure. And just reminding him of, hey, you got to give back, you know giving back some of that. And I, I think, babe, I think, I think we've done a pretty good job with our children.
Speaker 1:They can be yeah, they can be little replicas of us in our not so good ways, but I think what we're seeing now, like they're starting to evolve into very much their own identity, and just little conversations that I hear and I pick up on, like I'm seeing and I'm like I think they're going to be good humans well, and you know one of the things that we didn't touch upon and I think this is a perfect I'm seeing and I'm like I think they're going to be good humans you know one of the things that we didn't touch upon and I think this is a perfect opportunity to just throw it in.
Speaker 2:There is, over time, it was me and Leslie right, we were doing ministry together, children's ministry and then eventually the kids got to an age, to the age where they were actually helping us do children's ministry and our oldest son was actually helping us do puppeteering in the children's ministry and Jacob did too.
Speaker 1:Huh, he would go back there with you sometimes too. Yeah, and do you profess yourself His off service? Yeah, did too. Huh, he would go back there with you sometimes too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and do professor saw his off, his off um service, like yeah, yeah, so the kids would do on sundays, we would attend one, serve one and then go home yeah, yep, so we we had I touched upon this on another episode, but we did uh, we had puppet that was part of our like teaching and his name was professor sock and we have it was called like the socks of Tron and it was a puppet box, this huge box that was like built or it was a puppet stage, I guess you can say and all three of you guys would fit back there, remember you would have both of them sometimes because we'd have multiple.
Speaker 1:We'd have little K, remember we had little K, and then we have professor sock like pop out, and they would both be back there like doing props. We'd have them backstage like helping. Sometimes we would just have them carry the offering bucket, remember, and we have just have them go up and down and collect offerings, giving stickers out, helping with snacks. So they have always been part of the ministry also, but as they got older it wasn't like so cool anymore, you know.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, we kind of we never forced it on them either, and I think that's one thing. We've never we never forced church on them. Even now, as they're older, we've kind of created boundaries with them, or allowed them to create the boundaries, because I can't force my kid to have a relationship with God. That is a choice that they have to make. I think we've done a very good job laying the foundation for them. I mean, they were born in church, basically, and went to a Christian church, I mean Christian school. You know they've they've had the foundation laid for them. It is now they are now at the age where they have to make that choice for themselves. I can't make it for them, and I think we've been, we both have been very intentional with that of. You know what I'm going to let them make the choice, and all I can do, all we can do, is be the example for them. At the end of the day, just being the example for our children is going to be the best thing. I cannot force that relationship with God and they, they pray. We, you know, we pray with them. We talk very, very much about God and how important it is in all areas of our life. They know that and they've never strayed from that. But I get it. You know now, going to church isn't a priority for them. Um, when is off to college? You know he, it's, it's. He comes when he can, he'll he? He even went found a church over there that he visited, and try to find a church nearby, or little one. He's just exhausted and all he wants to do is sleep. I'm not going to force it. I. At the end of the day, they are old enough and wise enough. And Steve always says, like all we can do is be the example. We've done our part Although our children. We're never going to be done being a parent to our children, but it comes to a point where I think they're at the age where they have to start making those decisions for themselves. And Steve and I that's that's how we have chose to parent we.
Speaker 1:I was parented a different way, in that I was drugged to church. I was given an ultimatum Like I either go to church or I'm grounded for the full week, and I didn't like that. There's parts of me where I feel like I'm like. You know, I'm kind of glad my mom forced me to church, but we also didn't. I didn't grow up in the church. I didn't start going to church until I was like 12 or 13 years old. Our boys were grew up in the church, they were born in the church.
Speaker 2:So they've got more. They definitely got more churches than I do.
Speaker 1:Oh, I mean they were at every single church service you could think of.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, we, we didn't want it. You know, guys, one of the other, one of the other things that we did not mention, and I think it's worth mentioning, and and I it's not one of those things where, oh, it's just you guys, it's I know it's not us, because other people in the ministry, but burnt, burnout is real and just. I just want to paint the picture of Christmas Eve. My grandparents lived in Whittier, california. The church that we attended was in Covina or West Covina, california. Roughly let's call it 20-25 minutes traveling time. So so on Christmas Eve, I would take the boys to my grandfathers or my grandparents, leslie would go to church, me and Leslie would then connect and then we would go to her cousin's house and then after that we would then go back to service and finish up for the. Was it the midnight service, right? And? And so that happened I don't know how many times.
Speaker 1:Nine Christmases.
Speaker 2:At least nine, and so I want to picture this. We have Easter right around the corner, guys. My Easter was spent because we didn't want the boys to be in Saturday service and all was it. Was it three or four Sunday services?
Speaker 1:it was only three, huh, we, no, we had four, because we had sunrise, oh sunrise and and so so that we didn't attend sunrise.
Speaker 2:It's, let's see how to go to sunrise, but we me and the boys would go to like the eight or whatever the first one, and then we would serve. And then we would spend the last service basically in the car, eating lunch or napping, waiting for leslie to finish the day off. Like I remember vividly. Like basically sleeping in the car with the boys. They're in their car seats, me and I'm in the front seat, we're like in the parking lot asleep, and like it makes you think like why do? Like I know leslie got that got burnt out. But but like there's a part of me and I'm thinking like why didn't I?
Speaker 1:I should have got burnt out you it takes a lot, really, really burnt out, you know, and and gosh, we really have to end here. But in just to give a perspective also, when I knew that it was time for me to leave the church, the position that I was in when I came and told steve, steve had a hard. He, he was very, very against me leaving and saying no, just like one more year. And Steve got very emotional about it. I hope you don't mind that I shared that, but a big part of it, I think, was because of the relationships that we had established in the ministry. Like the ministry had became our family to our extended family. Like a lot of the young girls that were serving in the ministry would come and give us a date night, you know, they came in, they babysat for us and we got to go and hang out and stuff. And it was almost.
Speaker 1:I think at one point Steve felt like indebted. Like these, this is something that we have to keep doing. I was like, but God is telling me that our time is up, you know. And he, he was like trying to hold on. He's like no, like I don't want to do this.
Speaker 1:Because there was, we gave so much of our life during that season there, but God was very clear to me that it was time to move on. And I don't at all. I don't regret any of my time at the church doing the ministry, but there was different ministry for us to do. God was like look I, you learned what you needed to hear. You did what I called you to for the season.
Speaker 1:Now it's time to take that and impact more people, and I think that we have been able to impact people that if we had stayed there we wouldn't have been able to have impact. And we needed to learn the skills. We needed to learn how to do ministry, to take it outside of the church and serve on the football field, serve in the schools, serve in the community, just being Jesus's hands and feet. At the end of the day, that's what it really comes down to is taking that outside. How are we going to do that outside of the church? Because those are the people that really, really need it. You know, I mean the people in the church definitely need it, but the job is to get them into the church.
Speaker 2:And you know like it's one thing to change your own kids diapers, but it's another thing to change somebody else's kids diapers and like to do one after the other, after the other, like to have a production like that that I remember, like the smell in the room, the it was a mixture of the snacks and the dirty diapers, like it was just it. And it's not that it was because it wasn't well kept up or clean, it's just you. Everybody decided to go to the bathroom at the same time and we just happen to be preparing snack or having snack and, and you know, like Leslie said, at the end of the day, super glad we did it because you know if you can change somebody else's kid's diaper like you could totally pray for somebody, that's easy that's yeah you did.
Speaker 2:You asked you know, is that okay if you share that? But you know, like thinking back and digging deep, it was almost like a part of us kind of I don't want to say died, but like we were almost saying goodbye to that part and that that was. That was hard for me at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:It was hard because I just just kept going, just kept going yeah, no, I, I think it it well, it was hard for both of us, for sure, but now that we've gotten on the other side of them, we saw, like, what God had in store. It was like we had to go through that for sure.
Speaker 1:I had to go through that just for me to heal the part. That wasn't healthy either, because I I was not in a healthy place at that time just mentally, spiritually, even physically, I wasn't in a in a good place, cause I had no time for Leslie, I had no time for me, I had no time to work out, like any of that stuff. So there was, there was so much to that, but we're going to wrap up right now, my love, because we've gone way too long. I hope, though, that this episode can definitely help people that are in ministry that are serving together, couples, just anybody, just listening to our crazy stories and just how we have thrived through serving for 22 years together as a married couple. But let's end on this question what do you see and I don't know, we may or may not be on the same page of this, but we'll see what exciting things do you see ahead as far as what God put in your heart to serve?
Speaker 2:So I'm super excited for what we have in store with our creative team and we're going to be doing outings and we're going to be able toives together.
Speaker 1:For me serving. I think it is just the creative ideas that God has put in my heart of things to create resources and tools that are going to help people get out of that victim mindset and really find their identity in God, and giving them tools and resources to help them to overcome the struggles that you know the enemy has been maybe putting against them, to really walk in their calling and to inspire this next generation to just be on fire for God. I think that's what I am excited about and that is through the podcast, that is through other things that God has planted in my heart that are hopefully to come, that I'm working on creating new platforms, new items, new tools uh, that will be coming, and you know things like I have my journal that is already out, more resources like that that I think are going to help people to really just be on fire for God. So those are some fun things to come, but until next time, y'all.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening. Yes, thank you, my love for recording this with me. You know us getting together can be challenging sometimes with our schedules, but it's always fun and I know that there are going to be lots of people that will be impacted through this conversation and there will be more to come from us. So again, until next time. Y'all go chase joy.