Your Joyful Order With Leslie Martinez

#128- 25 Years Later: What Marriage Actually Taught Us

• Leslie Martinez • Season 6 • Episode 128

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Twenty-five years ago, Steve and I stood at the altar with big dreams, a lot of love, and very little understanding of what marriage would actually require.

Over the last 25 years, we've walked through seasons of joy, parenting, ministry, business ownership, financial challenges, personal growth, and countless ordinary moments that ultimately shaped our marriage more than any grand milestone ever could.

In this special anniversary episode, we're sitting down together for an honest conversation about what marriage has actually taught us. We're sharing lessons learned, mistakes made, unexpected surprises, hard seasons, and the habits that have helped us stay connected through every chapter of life.

Whether you've been married for decades, are newly married, dating, or simply hoping for a healthy relationship one day, we hope our story encourages you and reminds you that healthy marriages aren't built on perfection—they're built on commitment, grace, friendship, and faith.

In This Episode We Discuss:

  • What we thought marriage would be like versus reality
  • The biggest adjustments during our early years together
  • How we've changed as individuals over 25 years
  • The seasons that stretched us the most as a couple
  • Lessons we've learned about forgiveness and commitment
  • What matters more, and less, as the years go by
  • Habits that have strengthened our marriage over time
  • The role faith has played throughout our journey
  • Advice we'd give our younger selves and newly married couples
  • Fun rapid-fire questions and reflections from 25 years together

We'd Love to Hear From You

If you've been married, what is one lesson marriage has taught you?

If you're not married, what relationship lesson are you learning in this season?

Share your thoughts by sending us a message or connecting with us on social media.

If this episode encouraged you, would you take a moment to:

✓ Follow the podcast

✓ Leave a rating and review

✓ Share this episode with a friend, spouse, or someone who could use a little encouragement today

Your support helps us continue creating faith-filled conversations that inspire women to walk confidently and joyfully in their God-given purpose.

Remember…

Keep chasing joy.


Connect with Leslie:

Follow on IG: @yourjoyfulorderstyle

Website: https://shopjoyfulorder.com/

Email: lmartinez@yourjoyfulorder.com
to schedule- Speaking Events, Interviews or Life Coaching Sessions

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Watch this Episode on You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsXoAYIM2mfclNtYiaOzIUw

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25 Years And Why We’re Honest

SPEAKER_00

Hey friends, welcome back to another episode of your joyful order podcast. Today's episode is just a little bit different, and honestly, it's a very special one. This year, my husband Steve and I are celebrating 25 years of marriage. June 2nd, 2001, we said I do. 25 years. That is absolutely insane. A whole quarter of a century we have been together. When we got married, we were young, optimistic, and pretty convinced that love alone would carry us through absolutely anything. What we didn't know is that marriage would become one of God's greatest tools for growth, refinement, forgiveness, friendship, and faith. Over the last 25 years, we've experienced incredible joy, some difficult seasons, parenting, ministry, career changes, financial stress, big dreams, failures, disappointments, laughter, and a whole lot of learning in between. So today we're pulling back the curtain and we're having a real conversation about what marriage has actually taught us. And this is not coming from a place of perfection. We're not here to give like marriage advice and for you to look at us and say, hey, look at us. This is just coming from a place of experience. So whether you've been married for six months or 25 years, or you're just simply hoping to one day have a healthy relationship, our prayer is that something out of today's conversation just encourages you. So stay tuned and get ready to have some fun conversations. Each week I will bring you joyful stories that will motivate and inspire you, but at the same time, bring order in your everyday life. Let's just say this show will be a mixture of teaching with the kick of motivation from your girl here. Welcome to your joyful order podcast. Hey friends, welcome back to this fun episode. Uh, I have a pretty amazing guest. I kind of sleep with him too. He's pretty hot, he's pretty handsome. Um, but I feel like he doesn't need a formal introduction. So, my wonderful husband, Steve, thank you for being here. And for just 25 years of marriage, my love, isn't it pretty crazy?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it is pretty crazy. And it goes by super fast. It, you know, I could think back of us after Noah was born and we're like, where is he gonna go to school? We got to think about that. And here we are 25 years later. He's 21 and we've been married for 25 years.

SPEAKER_00

I know it's pretty crazy. And here we're sending our youngest off to graduate in a matter of days. Uh, when this airs, he will have already graduated, which is absolutely insane. You need no introduction. If for those of you that are listening that don't know, I know I've mentioned this a numerous times, but maybe there's a new listener that does not know. Um, Steve is like my backbone to this podcast. He does a lot of behind-the-scenes work that you guys just don't see up front. He edits every single episode, y'all. So kudos to my love for being the backbone of this episode. Um, or of all episodes, I should say, all hundred and twice. Do you realize you have edited 128 episodes of this podcast?

SPEAKER_01

That's crazy. How many years is that 128?

SPEAKER_00

Shoot, when did I launch the podcast?

SPEAKER_01

Three or four years.

SPEAKER_00

2002? I think we're I think we're four years. This is season six. Um, I know it's weird because I kind of did two seasons for like the first couple of years. That's how we're on like six now. Okay, so let's

What We Thought Marriage Was

SPEAKER_00

start. Today we're just we're gonna talk about what 25 years of marriage has taught us. So let's just start from the beginning, looking at back then versus now. Uh, when you think back to the day that we got married, what did you believe marriage was going to be like?

SPEAKER_01

What did I believe marriage was gonna be? You know, as much as I want to give a good answer, I want to say I had no clue because I was just literally legal to drink.

SPEAKER_00

We were young.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I had just turned 21 the August before we got married, and so I was legally the age to drink at my own wedding the August before. So I I think that's kind of crazy. And I mean nowadays you you see you know people getting married in their 30s, and and I I don't know what that would have done for us, but we are not 50 yet, and we could see still keep up with our two adult-ish kids.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think we can enjoy them. Uh so for the listeners, um, I was 22 and Steve was 21 when we got married. We were high school sweethearts, so we had been together for seven years already. So it's not like we just met and got married. Um, we were just ready to kind of start our next phase of life together, and we wanted to do it married. So yeah, we did get married really young.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, Lissy, what about you? What expectations did you have that turned out to be completely wrong?

SPEAKER_00

Um, well, I think for me, my little like mash sixth grade lineup of what my life was gonna look like. Remember that game MASH? I told me I was gonna have like a convertible Mercedes and a big mansion and a maid and um like a cook by now. So I think I was completely um disappointed by what my mash lineup turned out to be. Uh, and I joke, I joke. But I, you know, I think I'm with you is that I don't here's my thing. I was not brought up um in a family that had good marriages around them to have any expectations. That's kind of sad to say, but the truth, the reality was my I mean, my parents got divorced by the time I was 17, but there were years of like um infidelity and emotional and unstable abuse before that. So that's all I really remember about being married or you know, marriages. And then my grandfather on my mom's side died when he was very young, uh, or when sorry, when I was very young. Um, and then my grandmother on my dad's side was not married. So I didn't have like I didn't have any healthy marriages around me to know what uh like to know what a good marriage looked like or to have any expectations. So yeah, unfortunately, I I don't think I had any expectations. Um other than I don't like my little mash game lineup just failed me because at sixth grade I thought I'd be rich and you know, I'd have like people working for me by now. Um so Steve, what was one of the biggest adjustments for you in those early years?

SPEAKER_01

You know, I think when you get married and you end up doing stuff on your own, like for instance, we had our home together. I think you know, you come to the realization that your mom and your dad aren't gonna be there to do it for you, and you actually have to do it yourself. Um, you know, on top of like layering home ownership, and now you have to fix whatever issue that comes up or hire somebody that fixed whatever issue that comes up. I think for me is coming to the realization that I was on my own. No, granted, I did a lot of things on my own, but but it hit me when it was just you and me in the home. And it's like, well, wait a minute, we can do whatever we want, but we have to make sure we don't mess up.

SPEAKER_00

True.

SPEAKER_01

What surprised you the most about married life?

SPEAKER_00

I think like kind of what you said is like there one, there was freedom that came with being married and no longer like uh under our parents' roof, but that responsibility. Like there's a huge responsibility that comes with married life. Uh we had a home that we had to be responsible for, and then each other. I had to make sure that you were fed or you know, uh taken care of. And um, and I also think another thing that surprised me the most is that uh I couldn't control a lot of things. Like I could only control myself. There were lots of things that were out of my control. And because I was a control freak, I think that was one of the things that I struggled most most about was that I could not control you. I'm like, wait a minute, but I'm his wife. Like, he should listen to everything I say, and that was not the case. So I think that caused a lot of like misunderstandings and disagreements early on in our marriage. But I think that was definitely more most surprising is that the freedom has a cost of responsibility. So I think that was a huge thing. Now, what's something about me today that you would say is completely different from the woman that you married?

SPEAKER_01

Something about you today is completely different. Um we don't eat jack in the box.

SPEAKER_00

That's the that's the best, that's the best thing is that we don't need to eat 99 cent tacos anymore.

SPEAKER_01

Well and well, not only that, but like I don't think we have the palate for it anymore. But but yeah, I I mean we would eat Jack in the Box a lot. I mean, I know I would get two tacos for I think it was 99 cents. And we don't do that anymore. I mean, I don't even like we haven't eaten Mc McDonald's anymore. And I think for for me that that's made a big, big impact because um my family has diabetes runs through my blood, my bloodlines, and not to say if you eat that, you can get that, but it I think us taking or making a conscious decision earlier in life to eat not fast food, let's put it that way, and eat food that we are gonna typically cook ourselves and somewhat healthy has um kept me at the size that I am right now. What's something about me that has changed the most? Oh, this one's like a fool. You can go anywhere.

SPEAKER_00

Uh well, there's a lot that's changed, not just you not eating tacos. Um I think I think you are far more passionate now than you were uh 25 years ago. I think there is just this like great passion inside you to like just push through. And I I think you're much more wiser and smarter for sure. You are by far more uh details oriented, but I like to take ownership in some of that because I think I have kind of um allowed you, taught you the ways I have senseayed you into like, look, the it's important for the details. Um the passion I I I won't take full credit for, but I think like the details and stuff definitely you've you've learned um probably by failure to to miss the details. So I think that's something that has changed for sure.

Lessons From Early Friction

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so let's look back 25 years. If we could sit down with our 25-year-old selves right before the wedding, what advice would you give that couple, us 25 years ago?

SPEAKER_01

I would say um make sure you listen before you speak, make sure that you become more detail-oriented than your spouse because you have to be 10 steps ahead of her. Yes. And know that if you say she has dirty ankles, it's gonna cost you like 10 times as much.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god. Okay, the audience is that's gonna so go over the audience's head right now. Um, she'd say that's an inside joke between us, you guys. Oh god, now they're gonna think it's something dirty.

SPEAKER_01

Like we'll just make sure that we put a a picture of my dirty sandwich.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, let me give a disclaimer. So, right before the podcast, I'm sitting on the bed and I have sand. I I'm like barefoot, I have pants on, but I have I'm wearing sandals today. And Steve was cleaning what looked like my dirty ankles. And you guys, I have the worst tan line on my ankles right now. So during the winter time, like Steve and I walk every day, and I wear yoga pants and I wear ankle socks. So there is like a maybe like two-inch gap between my leggings and my socks around my ankles that the sun gets and they get super tan. So it looks like I legit have dirty ankles. Yeah, I won't tell you what I my comeback was to Steve because I'm far too nice here on the podcast. That's why he said it's gonna cost me. Um, but I won't say it here because I had a very costly comeback to him on that. So the advice that I would give ourselves right before the wedding, I think I would tell them to when you're in the thick of raising kids, still make sure to have time to be a couple and to be individuals. I think, and we can chat about that a little bit later. I think um there was a season, at least I won't speak for Steve. I think for me, where I got so lost in motherhood and being a wife that I completely lost my identity. Uh, so I think it's so important for married couples to withstand their individuality when you enter a marriage. I think that's so important. Now, one thing that I have learned, I will say this, is that marriage isn't built on the easy seasons, that is for sure. It has um it's really forged just in those difficult ones. And that's what I want us to actually talk about a little bit are the seasons that grew us the most.

Surviving Parenting And Ministry

SPEAKER_00

Looking back over 25 years, um, Steve, what season do you think stretched us the most as a couple?

SPEAKER_01

Looking back over the past 25 years, I think the season of I guess the early years of not only our marriage, but us being adults, it was like a the perfect intersection of ministry and parenting. And and when I say ministry, that that was your job at that point. And um not that I can't handle the kids, but I basically took care of the kids on the weekends um and primarily made made me all day Sunday, and you know, I had to get creative and and we we did a lot of cool things together, um a lot of things that I don't think Leslie would have done uh with with the boys. Like I remember one time we chased chickens in the back of bushes and and I know Leslie probably wouldn't have done that, but but but that's I think that stretched us the most because um and the commute back and forth from where you were working and and church, uh the kids were young and and I think I was super impatient with the kids and and I know that there was certain times where I'm just like all right, let's let's let's go. And I was super hard on the boys to make sure that we weren't late because I hate being late. And you know, when you're driving 30 minutes, you gotta make sure you leave probably an hour before. And and I think, you know, it not only stretched us, but it stretched me as a person and the boys, because the boys were little. I think what stretched us the most um was was that perfect intersection between parenting and and ministry. Now, Les, I I wanna I want to ask you if there was a season where you felt like we were simply surviving. And what helped us get through that?

SPEAKER_00

Uh, I think it was that same season for sure. I worked ministry for nine years. When I started my ministry job as children's director at a make a church, Noah was two, and then I got pregnant with Jacob while I was in that role. So I had him while working there. We had two young kids. I was working like six days a week, um, at least like 50 hours a week sometimes, depending what season we were in. I felt like we were in survival mode every week, oftentimes. And this is where I like lost myself in just that like the role being a mom uh to young kids. And what helped us get through that? I think uh really it was God, honestly. Like it, and I think definitely for for someone that's listening right now that maybe you are considering going into full-time ministry, uh and if you are married, know that when you go in full-time ministry, your spouse also goes into full-time ministry with you. Now, Steve had a full-time job Monday through Friday, and then on the weekends, he had a second full-time job, not just to parent like and be with our boys, but he showed up and served. He served in the classrooms uh with the kids. He was there making sure that like I was fed, he'd make sure the breakfast would get ready when on Sundays, he'd get the kids ready on Sundays and go and serve on Sundays. Um, make sure, like sometimes he'd go grab me lunch so I can eat in between like the third and fourth service that I was working. So it really took like all of us. And then when the boys started getting older, they were there serving services with us. So it was, we were definitely, I want to say it was a mix of us surviving, but also thriving because I look back to that, and there's so many good memories that we created during that. We just we made the most of that season that we were in. And I think that that's what just really helped us to get through it.

Forgiveness And The Long Game

SPEAKER_00

Now, here's another thing that I think that we have done, I think really well. And I think this is a big component as to how we have allowed ourselves to get to 25 years. And I want you to share, um, babe, what have you learned about forgiveness after 25 years?

SPEAKER_01

You know, it's not always about winning. And for me, I like Lesky said, I'm I'm super passionate and passionate people love twin. And I know there's times where I'm like, I want to win, wanna win, want to win. And one of the things that allow me to grow is being able to step back and say, okay, what is this moment about? Is it about me winning? Is it about um one of us messing up? It's about us playing the long game. And that's where forgiveness comes in. I think forgiveness, uh not only forgiveness, but being able to listen and understand the different perspectives is the long game for 25 years. Forgiveness was a big component. What is the one lesson that marriage taught you about yourself, Leslie?

SPEAKER_00

Uh God, there's lots of lessons that marriage taught me about myself. I think surrender is probably one of them. Cause I think that was the hardest thing for me to do. And that comes in like uh I think it was easy for me to forgive. That I think is definitely something that I learned even beforehand, because there was lots of things that I had to forgive others for that were done to me. But I think just surrender is the biggest thing and not always getting my way. And especially when kids came in, that like oh kids will kids will cause you to just like lose your sanity. So I think it's definitely just learning to surrender. Things that are out of my control. I think that's been the biggest lesson. Now, what is something that we've had to intentionally fight for in our marriage?

SPEAKER_01

I guess unity. Because we could easily like you're a separate person, I'm a separate person. Like we can easily go down our separate paths because we're both fully capable. But when it comes to marriage, it's not about going down your own separate paths. It's about being able to take two paths and overlap them and almost run them parallel to get to the final destination. And I think that's the one thing that we've been able to intentionally fight for is connection. Uh because I mean 25 years, it's it's basically the the life of somebody that is literally I mean, it's the life of our son. There's the life of some of the kids, some of the the young adults that we volunteer with at church. And and I think um the the other thing that we've also had to fight for is is trust and being able to trust each other as we go about our own different pathways and then come together and be able to be friends.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I second that for sure. You know, we Steve and I were on a walk the other day, and I had told him when we're like it was the realization of like, dang, like 25 years, that is so crazy. And I said, you know, I've been with you longer now than I than I was with my parents. Like, so my like who I am today is 100% Steve's fault. I can no longer blame my parents for all of this, you know. So the therapy sessions are like now all Steve's fault, not my parents' fault. Yeah.

What Matters Now More Than Stuff

SPEAKER_00

Uh all right, so let's uh transition a little bit here and let's look at what actually matters. So we talked about the things that have sh, you know, allowed us to grow some of the more challenging times. But one thing that happens after 25 years is that you stop chasing the things that just really don't matter and start valuing what actually does. So, with that said, what matters way more today than it did when we first got married?

SPEAKER_01

So, what matters today more than it did when we got married? Um I'm gonna give two answers. So the first one, having a camera. I think it's so funny. We had we had cameras when we were when we were married, and and we used disposable and we used the new film that came out. And now it's like I have, I don't know, we have five cameras, and I always want more. That wasn't there when we first got married. It's obviously progressed as as the years have gone by. Uh, I also think one of the things that that when we first got married, we we wanted uh I I mean we probably still do want it, but it's not as important, is a uh 1964 speech, sir. That's that's definitely not on the priority list right now. We we need to get Jacob a car, we need to get our our youngest son a car, and we have two kids going to college, so not on the priority list. Uh, but not to say that it's not gonna fall off the list, it's just not on the priority. Uh, but and and another thing, like on a serious note, I think the other thing that matters way more today is is the time that we get to spend together. Because uh, you know, one of the things that I've told us see over the past couple of years is like, think about this, like it's gonna be you and me again. It's not gonna be the four of us, it's gonna be you and me again, you and me and Zoe. So um, yeah, I I think it's a realization that that's gonna be settling in soon to know that okay, it we're we're back to square one.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Now, let me finish everything that Steve just said because he missed so many details in there. I love you. About what your camera. Go back. What matters way more to you today than it did back then is not so much the cameras, but capturing memories, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but also the cameras. Oh my gosh. Like some people collect sneakers, some people collect like coins. I kind of want to start collecting cameras.

SPEAKER_00

You guys hear this? Are you guys listening to this? Okay, I'm thinking he's talking about the cameras because he's like, it's so more, it's so much more important that we capture the memories and you know, have those tools to do it. Like, no, he just wants to collect cameras.

SPEAKER_01

But capturing memories is also important.

SPEAKER_00

All right, all right. And then for those of you that don't know, Zoe is our dog that he's referring to. I I know I've mentioned her before, but Zoe is our dog. I just, you know, 25 years of marriage, you also know the thought process of your spouse. And sometimes you gotta finish like their thought process a little bit. Uh, you gotta remember that Pete, there's there's possibly someone listening to us for the very first time that have no idea what we're who we're talking to or or what we do.

SPEAKER_01

Um I I want to say that that is a very, very good note that my very detailed-oriented wife has picked up on because typically when I'm with her, I don't have to be as detailed as as as I have to at work. And and my my guard goes down, and she's right. I I sorry for those that that are jumping off for the first time. Um I will be very detailed oriented going forward. So now that we got the detailed stuff out of the way, what's something that we worried about early in our marriage that now feels completely insignificant?

SPEAKER_00

Oh god, there's so many things that I think were completely insignificant. Um I think I I would say trying to make it seem like we were perfect or like had our ish together. Um I think early in our marriage, just wanted it like seem that everything was all happy go lucky and that we had everything together and like not showing where we lacked or failed or our flaws. And I mean, we failed early in our marriage in very many different ways. And I think just kind of sharing in those hard seasons, like keeping them from people, not that like we're gonna flaunt our dirty laundry all over the place, but I think it, at least for me, I think back then, like I was more concerned about what other people saw or perceived. And now I'm just like, we're just a train wreck away from, you know, like everybody else, we're we all have our flaws. And that's that's where I struggle talking about marriage because I know that our marriage isn't perfect, and I don't want people to look at us as like this, you know, poster uh couple that like, oh, you know, put us on a pedestal, you guys have been married for 25 years and you guys have it all together. Like, absolutely not, you know. Steve and I were just arguing about something really stupid a couple of days ago. And it is not all like butterflies and rainbows, you know, it's really hard to get to this place. But I think that's why we're doing this episode to kind of pull back the curtain and say, hey, I contemplated even, I think we did an episode uh maybe over a year ago or so. I what was that topic about? I don't remember. I think it was about doing ministry, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And even then, I was still kind of like, I don't know if I want to talk, like go deep into marriage, give marriage advice or anything like that. This episode is far from giving any type of advice. We're just speaking from experience. And I think our experience, if it can encourage someone or it can shape someone else's marriage, then great. But I don't want to say that this is cookie-cutter advice or experience because every couple is absolutely different. I think who you become, I should say, through marriage and how you evolve is important to understand too. Again, 25 years, like Steve has probably been married to six different Leslie's versions of me, at least. I know there are quite a few different versions of Steve that I have been married to. So we evolve and we change, and things that were important back then are no longer important, and you know, vice versa. So it's really just learning how to uh be in the season that you're in, you know. So when people ask, babe, what is our secret to 25 years? I know we've been asked this many times. What do you tell them?

SPEAKER_01

Uh my normal answer is oh, being patient and knowing when to walk away. And and and that that's that's the normal answer. But you know, getting ready for this and thinking about this, I'm I want to say slow is fast. And I say that because Leslie made a comment earlier that you know, we're not butterflies and rain rainbows. And so think about this. I want I want you guys to think about this. We've been together for 25 years. Of that 25 years, Lessie and I were on a stalemate on what we should do with our backyard, and uh but our backyard sat with dirt, just dirt, for what, five years?

SPEAKER_00

Seven years, not the whole backyard. We had slab put in, mind you. That's a meant slab.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but there's a question.

SPEAKER_00

We had a strip that Steve and I couldn't absolutely not agree what to do, like it literally caused arguments when we would bring it up.

SPEAKER_01

And then finally we said, okay, let's do this, and we were done in weekend. And I mean it granted, we went all that time, but the moment we came together, we finished it in the weekend, we brought in our two boys to help, but at the same time, we like I said, slow is fast. And sometimes you just don't rush, don't rush into something, take your time. And the moment you become aligned, that's when it's gonna hit you're gonna hit the ground running.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I I would agree to that.

SPEAKER_01

And you know, when when when I say slow is fast, the slow is fast actually I think is a uh compound of daily habits and daily habits that happen over a course of of whatever duration.

Daily Habits Faith And Partnership

SPEAKER_01

What daily habits do you think have strengthened our marriage over time, thus?

SPEAKER_00

Uh for I'll speak first and foremost as like my individual habits. I think for me, over the last like seven years, I have really been keyed in on my morning routine, my morning habits, which is like reading my Bible, doing my devotion, my gratitude journal, studying the Bible, doing my soap journal. All of that, I think, has definitely strengthened our marriage. It's a way I journal. This will be no surprise to Steve. I've said it multiple times on the podcast, but my journals, when I die, my my husband and my kids will read all the dirt in there of how I was feeling about them that day and the prayers that I had to have. So when I've been pissed off at Steve, like it's in my prayer journal. And it's it it will be no surprise. Um, he can read all that stuff. My I don't hide my journals or anything because that is my place to to vent about everything, not just my marriage, but life when I'm feeling defeated or disappointed, or even when I feel like not seen by God, there are things in there when my kids have pissed me off and annoyed me. Um, I write about it in there, you know? And that's been my form of therapy, uh, something daily that I do every day. I think as a as a married couple, I think one thing, uh, a habit that we do every day is uh we always tell each other I love you, like no matter what. I love you, like if we're leaving, if we talk to each other on the phone, I love you. When we leave for work, I always tell the kids too, like I love you. Uh, and that's just been something that I think has been a habit that just I want, if anything, God forbid, anything happens to any one of us, uh, that kind of last moment that we may have seen each other or anything, I want it to be like that. You heard the words, I love you. So that is, I think, a habit that we've done like pretty well that I don't want to take for granted. Just talking about like faith and what me every day spending time with God, um, and making that habit just a big thing for me. How has faith, do you feel, impacted our marriage over the years?

SPEAKER_01

One of the first things that we did together was uh start ministry. And I mean, we were doing ministry at our church that we were attending uh when we were 21, maybe or 20.

SPEAKER_00

We started with like shortly when we got engaged. So I was about 21, you're about 20, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and and so I think that was probably one of the first and best decisions we made in the course of our our the 25 years up until this point that allowed us to to be able to work together in in a in an environment that wasn't our home. And I think that's that's kind of important when you take a step back because we're together all the time, whether we like we wake up, we eat together, we we're gonna we're spending time together at home, and and then we go off and do our thing, and then we come back together. Well, this was a moment for us to do something together, but under a different roof. And I think that was important for us because we got to be able to carry that same partnership that we have under our roof, under somebody else's roof.

SPEAKER_00

So during that time when we did uh ministry together, we I mean, we did it even as a family. So I had mentioned before, like Steve would lead in the classroom also. This was now, mind you, I over I was the early childhood director at a church, a mega church. I oversaw nursery through kindergarten. And just in my ministry alone, I oversaw 150 volunteers. We had about 500 kids on a weekend come through just our section. This isn't all kids, like this is just nursery through pre uh through kindergarten. So Steve would work in like the pre-K classes, leading the kids, like teaching lessons to three, four, five-year-olds. And we had a little theater, we had a puppet stage, and Steve would help with the props. Like he would do, he would lead worship, he would lead lessons, he would help in doing puppets, right? Like we would do props. We did like the whole shebang, y'all. So this was not just the little thing that we did on the weekends. Like we it what I just said as many kids, like one service in that little G3 theater back there, at one service or like 1015 service, we could have up to a hundred pre-K and kindergartners in that one room. Okay. Now imagine trying to keep the attention of 104 and 5 year olds. Y'all, you just don't know. I mean, talk about the whole song and dance. Um, Steve often uh accredits that season to allow him to now go and lead in boardrooms in multi-million dollar companies and school districts today, is that he was able to keep three, four, five-year-olds fully engaged. And now he presents, you know, to um school districts, and he's in boardrooms and the he gets accredited oftentimes for being such a well-spoken presenter and an engaged presenter. And that's that's why.

SPEAKER_01

You know, it's so funny. I don't I don't know if I told you this, but at one point, the president I worked at Rose Hills, it's a cemetery, cemetery and mortuary. And at one point, the uh president told me, he pulled me aside and said, you know, I've never seen anybody present and smile as much as you do when they're talking about financials and accounting. But the thing is, is that the moment you let your guard down with those kids, they're gonna tear you apart. If you had a uh, I guess RBF, right? Yeah, they would eat you apart, like or or you'd lose them right away. So yeah, that's that's my smile.

SPEAKER_00

RBF, cara de achas, like all of all of that. Yes, they will rip you apart. That goes for any classroom, any age. You step into high school, you got RBF or cara de achas, the Fuchi face, all of that. If you are not Lathana, you don't know, but I'm I think most of you guys can know what RBF is. I'm not gonna say it out loud, but or say what it means, but you know what we're talking about. You step into a high school classroom, they will eat you alive with RBF. Our our son, our son, he takes pictures of people that carry the Fuchi face and he will blow them up. Okay. Now, enough about the serious stuff. Okay, we were talking, well, we're kind of having a little bit of fun right now, but let's get into some

Rapid Fire Plus Listener Questions

SPEAKER_00

more fun stuff. I want us to do like rapid fire questions here. So we gotta answer quick here, no overthinking. I just want you off the top of your head to think of like who who this is. Okay. Now, you ready? Yes, rapid fire. Okay, I'll ask all the questions. Here we go. Who said I love you first? Steve.

SPEAKER_01

Steve.

SPEAKER_00

You're a little slow there. You got a point, you got a point. Remember, you got YouTubers, okay? Yes. Steve said I now I I wanna I wanna like ad lib a little bit on this because Steve and I were friends for like six months before we actually started dating. We're in high school, so we're friends, but we would talk on the phone as friends, and he would always end the call with saying, I love you. And I'm like, we're just friends. He would always say it sarcastically. He'd be like, Okay, I love you. And I'm like, bye, fool. And I would like hang up. So um, it wasn't until years later or months later that he would say that like he meant it, whether he did or not. I guess I'll never know. Okay, next, next rapid fire question Who is more patient, Leslie?

SPEAKER_01

No, I'm not patient at all, guys.

SPEAKER_00

100% not yeah, Steve. I will say this. Steve used to be the more patient one early in our marriage, but I think over the last decade, I think our kids have like ruined that for him. So I think I am by far the more patient one now. All right, who apologizes first, Steve?

SPEAKER_01

Steve.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'll say him. I was definitely saying Steve.

SPEAKER_01

I probably messed up the most.

SPEAKER_00

There's a little bit of that truth on there, but I also am stubborn as hell. So it takes me a little bit longer. So yes, okay. Who's more likely to cry? Leslie. Leslie. Yeah, for me. I I I was crying today watching my watching my baby boy play on the playground, like his last Reese's for their grad walk. Like I legit was a hot mess. I'd have to walk out because I I was crying. Yeah. Okay, who is more stubborn?

SPEAKER_03

Leslie.

SPEAKER_00

Leslie. I yeah, I I hands down, I'll say that. Who spends longer getting ready?

SPEAKER_01

Leslie.

SPEAKER_00

Leslie. Definitely. Steve can get ready in like 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_03

12.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, 12. Oh, yeah. I was just gonna say he has a timer sometimes. He knows if he's getting ready for like a work meeting, y'all. He knows that he can get ready in 12 minutes and he will set a timer as he's getting ready. So he knows how much time he has before his like work meeting. Yes, it's crazy. Okay, who's the better driver? Leslie.

SPEAKER_01

Leslie.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

I'm the better sleeper when I drive.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you guys, Steve goes into autopilot and it is scary as hell. When we're on long drives, I cannot fall asleep because I need to make sure that he stays awake. Like I can never sleep on car rides because I I fear what is gonna happen to us. Next question Who is more likely to forget where they put something?

SPEAKER_01

Steve.

SPEAKER_00

That's Steve. Yes, absolutely. Just today he asked me, have you seen the filter to our camera? And I was like, when did we last use it? He's like, Oh, when we took Jacob's pictures at the school, which means he probably left the filter to our camera on like the little ledge brick way of like their little quad area.

SPEAKER_01

No, I put it in a secret hiding place.

SPEAKER_00

In a secret hiding place on the school campus of the wall where we were taking pictures at. Y'all, he like he will leave, he will put stuff in random places and then not know what happened to it. We we lost, we had a photo shoot. Uh we did a big event at the football field, and he left our freaking ladder there. You still haven't replaced that ladder. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

No, we gotta find a cheap one.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. All right. Next question. Who is more likely to start something and not finish it?

SPEAKER_01

Leslie.

SPEAKER_00

Leslie, me. Absolutely. I yeah. I I'm not even gonna go into that. I've talked about that before. I procrastinate a lot. I have lots of ideas. I'm creative. I get bored easily. All right. Who is the bigger dreamer? Leslie.

SPEAKER_01

I guess it would be Leslie.

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna say me. That's that's why I don't ever finish when I start because I have too many dreams.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Who worries more? Steve.

SPEAKER_01

I guess it would be me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Steve.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, for sure. Uh who is more spontaneous?

SPEAKER_01

That's a toss-up.

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna say me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you're right. Because I am super we have to do this, do that, do this.

SPEAKER_00

I'm way more spontaneous. And it and if if we're going like this way and I tell Steve, no, let's go this way. Like sometimes sometimes he flips his lid a little bit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes, yes. All right. Who makes the other laugh more? I'm actually gonna say Steve.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna I was gonna say it's a toss-up. It's it's I think it's even.

SPEAKER_00

I think so Steve always says that I married him for his money. We were poor 17-year-olds when I started dating him. He had no money. But I will say that the way he makes me laugh is what I think got me. Uh, because his sarcasm and y'all don't know this. For you that are listening that maybe know Steve, but you don't know Steve. Steve is the biggest crap talker ever. Like our boys. They shut up. No, you guys, like he can like talk so much crap about people. Like we go people watching, and he will call people out and say things about them. And I'm not even gonna repeat some of the things that he says, but he he will make me laugh on stuff, yeah, because of that, like just saying stuff, and I'm like, oh my gosh. And I just start laughing. Okay, who is more competitive? Uh I'm gonna say Steve.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna that's it. That's even it's a toss-up.

SPEAKER_00

No, I think you are far more competitive.

SPEAKER_01

Look at the stalemate that we had for our backyard. You did, you were not putting, you were not moving ground. I wasn't moving ground. We're like, oh, stubbornness.

SPEAKER_00

That's stubbornness. That's not about wanting to win. I was just being stubborn.

SPEAKER_01

That's that's so funny, guys. If you think about it, that that's a long time to sit and just be like, oh well, just sit there, and we can agree to disagree. Yeah, and and I think you know that that's another thing to take away is sometimes it's okay to agree to disagree.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, for sure. And sometimes you just gotta like, like Steve said, sometimes slow is just good. It took seven years. I will say this though, if it wasn't for Chat GPT, I think we would still have dirt in our backyard because that is the only way that we we we were able to resolve what to put in our backyard. Is we Steve went and measured the backyard, got pictures, we uploaded those pictures, and we told, now it wasn't a matter of aesthetics of our backyard, it was a matter of functionality because we had some serious like drainage and flooding issues in our backyard. So we had to type all of that into Chat GPT for it to like give us a reasonable and affordable solution of what to do. So then we couldn't argue with each other about like, hey, this is what chat says and it makes sense, right? So that was that approach. If you guys ever are like in a stale agreement like that with your spells, go to chat and see what chat says. But you have to tell it to be nonpartisan, all right? It can't be like bias. You gotta like give the whole picture. Uh, all right. So let's ask a couple more fun questions. What is the best vacation that we ever took?

SPEAKER_01

I I know what you're gonna say, and I'm gonna say Hawaii because and every time we go to Hawaii, I is probably the best time I ever go, ever have.

SPEAKER_00

Like Hawaii, now I'm I absolutely love Hawaii, but I'm actually gonna say Mexico when we went to Cancun.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, that was fun too.

SPEAKER_00

And I think, and I think it was a whole different uh level of like best vacation because the boys were in high school at that time. Yeah, they were both in high school. We were able to leave them for a whole week without being like worried, not having to worry about getting them around, like all that stuff. And we had fun, like we were fed really, we ate so good. We stayed at an all-inclusive resort. We just had to worry about ourselves.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that was fun.

SPEAKER_00

We had lots of fun. All right, our most memorable date.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna take the easy route and I'm gonna say I'm gonna chalk it up to the multiple dates that we took when we first got married and we bought our annual passes to Disneyland, and we just went because we it was already paid for. Now keep in mind, I know you probably can't do that today because it's not as cheap as it was back then. When I don't know, back in the early 2000s. But those types of dates I think are fun because it was just you and me. We went for an evening, we got on rides, and then we got to eat, and that's it. And and it's crazy because you have all those people there, but it was just you and me.

SPEAKER_00

I will agree. I would say that those definitely were our most memorable dates. And this is where we would have fun because we would just sit on Main Street with our tutor in hand or what ice cream, whatever it is that we're eating, and we would talk crap about people walking down Main Street.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And that's where like Steve would make me laugh. Uh, he would come off with some off-the-top stuff, and I would just like bust out laughing. We would see people doing random stuff, like some, you know, nice, um, thick, solid guy across the way, like digging in his nose or something and eating his ice cream, and Steve would point him out and I'd start like laughing. So, yeah, those were definitely some fun, memorable dates. Now, let me ask you this what is one thing that you appreciate more about me now than when we first got married?

SPEAKER_01

You know, one of the things I I I appreciate the detailedness because you being detail-oriented, because when we go on vacation, I always thought when we're when we first got married that it was so annoying that we had to be like, oh, we gotta be detailed, detailed. But now I love the detailedness because it helps me stay detailed and on track so that way we don't have any spontaneous moments. I'm already thinking about everything that could potentially happen, and technically they're not spontaneous anymore because they're already in my head. So yeah, that I totally appreciate it now. It helps you stay organized, let's put it that way. And and you know, so when we first got married, we would uh we were living with Leslie's mom, and and I think it was either every weekend or every other weekend, we would clean our uh clean the house and we would help her clean clean the house. And you know, we we kept that going forward with with um the how our own house and then the ult the ultimately the other houses that we had, and then when the boys came, you know, we kept that as well. And even till this day, we will clean the floors together or Leslie will clean upstairs, I'll clean downstairs, and we get it done, and then we can cross it off our list. And that teamwork, I think, is is key because ultimately, if you're doing something by yourself and you keep doing it by yourself, it's gonna feel alone. Even when we wash dishes, I'll wash the dishes, she'll dry them, and we're done.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

So that detailness, I think it goes a long way. I think because, like you said, you helped me be who I am today, guys. I used to be that teenager that carried all my notes folded up in my back pocket, and chances are I never saw them again.

SPEAKER_00

And now he has them organized in files and like uh drives and yeah. Voice memory sheets, yes, everything. Yes. He even it took how many years for me to get you to actually use kind of like a planner, like a notebook. You have your notebooks that you write in daily to like keep everything organized, your thoughts and everything.

SPEAKER_01

A lot of years. It was just a lot.

SPEAKER_00

It was a lot of years of training you.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I don't even need the books now, but it helps me just get my thoughts on on paper.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. I think the thing that I appreciate most about you today than when we first got married is your will to not give up. Uh, that is something I think even back then, but I think that has allowed us to get to 25 years. Uh, your work ethic is like beyond anything. You guys, Steve is like a crazy workhorse. And how he does it all, I still don't know. But he just has a phenomenal work ethic. And he can learn things so easily. Like he just picks up things super fast. He's like honestly brilliant when it comes to data and research and like numbers and spreadsheets and all this craziness and tech stuff. Like, he's pretty, pretty handy with that stuff, and he has figured out how to fix things around the house by just like going to YouTube.

SPEAKER_01

Plumbing's not my expertise, guys, 100%.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but I will tell you, he has fixed some serious plumbing issues around our house by just going to YouTube and figuring it out that way. So he's a good problem solver, and I think I appreciate that more like now than ever. And more so because he's saved us a lot of money and plumbing issues. When you got two boys that share a bathroom, I I'm just gonna say there are serious plumbing issues with that. That's that's that's enough said right there. Uh all right, let's transition. We're gonna start to uh kind of wrap up here. But I asked my audience on social media for some fun questions, and we got some really good ones. So I want to kind of wrap up and asking these last few questions here. Now, looking back, Steve, what would you say mattered way less than you thought it would today?

SPEAKER_01

I know this is gonna sound funky, but but I I think, granted, I know money helps you get a lot of things accomplished, but it's not the most important thing. And and I I mean, guys, I I'm driving a car from 2004 and I love that car. And for me, it's not about having a fancy car, it's about having something that takes me from point A to B. And and I think, you know, when when me and Leslie started, we didn't have money. We we didn't have a lot of money. We had money, but we didn't have a lot. And now till this day, it's it's for us, it's not about the money, it's it's about spending time together and creating memories. And and I think, you know, when we were younger, maybe maybe it was just for me, but I wanted to make a lot of money. And and uh granted, I making a lot of money is great, and I'm not knocking it, but when it comes to having a family and understanding, and you know what, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna stop right here because I had I had a I had a moment back in I don't even know what year it was. It was probably I caught I had COVID and and and I think you know thinking back on that day where I felt like a fish out of water and I couldn't breathe that sticks in my head and all the money in the world isn't gonna help me be better. It's it's being able to breathe. I think that's the moment that that we take for granted. And when you're able to breathe and when you're able to breathe with your family around you, that's huge. And and I think like for me, like I said, uh money is not everything, but being able to be around your family and breathe is huge.

SPEAKER_00

Uh I would second that. Yeah. I think like money is not it. I think that's where for me it took that mind shift of bringing more joy into our life, and how can we live a more joyous life rather than something that is tied to money and and things. And Steve's car that he's talking about that he drives, we it is a 2004 Toyota Tundra, and we bought that brand new before we had kids. We brought both of our boys home in that car. It still drives like a freaking beast. That thing goes from zero to 60 in like, I don't know, two seconds. Uh but he always says like he's so emotionally connected to that car for so many reasons. Um, one, just that we have a paid-off car, but y'all, that thing still drives like so good. Uh, we are a Toyota car family for a reason. Now, here's another question. Uh, what did love look like after the honeymoon phase faded? Uh, this is from our audience. I'll answer this, this one. I think the reality of the honeymoon phase is short-lived. I don't know. I think we all can have like like different seasons of honeymoon phase. Like there is a time when, you know, you're in the thick of like parenthood for us. I think parenthood, I wouldn't necessarily call that the honeymoon phase because that was our more challenging. And then you added like ministry into that. I think it just looks like being resilient and persevering because you'll have seasons. Like, I almost want to say we're entering a new honeymoon, honeymoon phase for us now that our kids are gone, that we're just gonna have so much freedom to do a lot more things. And this is like a whole new version of us being married together without having the responsibility of having to like chauffeur and our kids or be at a practice or a game or be sideline and go to school events and school meetings and all this stuff. So I think I don't know, I don't want to say that the honeymoon phase fades or ever go, you know, goes away. It's kind of like you have your ups and downs of it, but I think it's just being steadfast through all of it and resilient. All right, here's the next question. What's the best air uh marriage advice that you ever received?

SPEAKER_01

I the only thing that comes to my mind is somebody saying, I remember she's always right. And and that that's not always the best, but because when um, you know, Leslie wants to go get her hair done, I'm like, no, it's been it's only been it's only been a week.

SPEAKER_00

Y'all, I go like every eight weeks to get my hair done. And when I tell him, oh, I have a hair appointment tomorrow, he's like, you just got your hair done. I'm like, eight weeks ago. Or when I get my narrow nails done every three weeks, he's like, You just went last week. I'm like, no, I didn't. I went two and a half weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So so happy wife, happy life.

SPEAKER_01

Happy life, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I'm gonna go down to this. Okay, here's here's one that we got from the audience. Tell us your dating story. How did you meet? How long you dated? I'll answer this one. So Steve and I uh started dating in high school. I had mentioned earlier we were friends first. My best friend actually introduced us. She had Steve in her Spanish class, and she introduced us, and we both were dating other people at the time. So when she introduced us, it was just like, oh, this is my friend Steve in Spanish class, like, oh, hey, what's up? She had, I think you guys had Spanish like third period. So it was like nutrition. So I always went to meet her so we can hang out with nutrition at nutrition, and he would always like walk with us, like to go to nutrition. Uh, so he was just like a friend, and then we started like talking and we we were friends, and then like I broke up with my boyfriend, he broke up with his girlfriend, and then we like started dating. And we were still even friends while we were like we weren't officially boyfriend and girlfriend. And then I think it was like after six months of us like kind of hooking up or whatever, and then he officially asked me to like be his girlfriend, and then we dated, I mean, seven years before we got married, and yeah, it was like a long time. So we we dated each other for a long time, and you know, I I'm gonna give the audience and maybe a lot of people that don't even know this part about us. I'm gonna really pull the curtain back. Uh I actually broke up with Steve, like uh after he graduated high school. So I graduated a year before him. His senior year, he he was a jerk. Let's just say that. He was a jerk during his senior year and he did some pretty nasty stuff uh to me. And I still like loved him and still was like dating him. And then that summer after he graduated, I was just kind of like, I don't know if I want to stay with this guy. He's he was a jerk to me, like his last senior year. And I and then he started like partying and like doing just stupid stuff with his friends. He had some stupid, like he went through that dumb phase that I think like teenage boys go through at that phase. Uh so I had broke up with him, uh, and we had broke up for like three months, I think, huh?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And if it wasn't for Steve coming and being like resilient and kept like coming and knocking on my door and still wanting to talk to me and like still pursuing me, I don't know that we would have gotten back together, honestly. I think like what was your train of thought during that time when I broke up with you? Did you realize that you were being a jerk?

SPEAKER_01

Uh, you know, I I don't I don't remember that back then, as far as my train of thought, but but I I do know this. I think you probably got introduced to Richard at that point.

SPEAKER_00

Um, Richard was trying to be a ladies' man, is what he was trying to do. He was trying to play me and trying to hook up with all these other ladies.

SPEAKER_01

That that is not the truth.

SPEAKER_00

You are so full of it.

SPEAKER_01

No, but I think in in all seriousness, uh again, my train thought or my thought process was probably, and you know, going back to that conversation that Leslie said that I had with her, I think at one point, was it before that that time or after that time where I told you I was gonna marry you?

SPEAKER_00

I think it was before that. I think it was before we broke up.

SPEAKER_01

I probably already messed with my head and was like, oh darn, you know what? This girl's doesn't want me to uh hang out with her anymore. And that's the girl that I said I was gonna marry, so I better go get her.

SPEAKER_00

And you actually, shortly after you graduated, you actually, if you remember, you gave me a promised ring. And then I still broke up with you.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then I was like What I already gave her a promise ring. I've better make this work.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And he uh I and I think that was kind of like I I really started thinking about it, and I was like, do I really want to like be with this guy forever? Like he treated me like crap this last year, and you know, he's off partying and doing all this stupid stuff, and that's why I was like, Yeah, no, I don't think so. And then I broke up with him, but then he kept coming back. And then I realized, like, I was like, okay, if he can pull his ish together and not be a jerk to me anymore, then maybe I'll give him a second chance. And he did. And here we are 25 years later.

SPEAKER_01

25 years later.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Okay, so here's my final question to you as we

Closing Takeaways And Prayer

SPEAKER_00

wrap up. When people hear 25 years of marriage, what do you hope that they understand?

SPEAKER_01

That it's not easy. And um I think we'll go back to our ministry days. Make your journey look like you're a swan on a lake. Super graceful, super pretty, everything is great, but underneath you're paddling as fast as you can. And and I mean that's what our marriage is. It's not, it's not the it's not perfect, but uh, but we do make sure that we come all the time dressed, make sure we're not in our pajamas. I may be in my or my our workout clothes, but not in our pajamas.

SPEAKER_00

Now, if there is one thing that we've learned over the 25 years, I think it's this that marriage isn't about finding the perfect person. It is simply about two imperfect people just choosing each other again and again through every season that life brings. And I think that's something that we've done pretty well. We both are very imperfect. Uh, and trying to pretend that we're perfect is not it either. I think just choosing that even in our imperfectness, that we will still uh choose each other over and over. And the truth is that love, it just isn't sustained by feelings alone. It is built through faithfulness, through forgiveness, through friendship, and through just showing up in ordinary days. And through God's grace, that is what carries a marriage through because it's not your own strength. Your own strength is not enough to get to 25 years. So, my love, thank you for taking this journey with me for the last 25 years. And thank you to the listeners. Thank you guys for celebrating this milestone with us. Before we go, um, I just want to say a quick prayer for marriages. And um, you know, for those of you that if you're a wife, if you're a spouse, I have the more, I'm I'm certain it's more ladies that are listening. But all right, people, my peeps, all of you guys listening, I hope that this episode was a blessing to you. Um, and just remember, um, you know, 25 years, slow and steady is the way for sure. Happy wife, happy life. And for the ladies out there, I'm gonna give this word of advice. Always make sure that your husband is fed and that he gets to sleep. Because I will tell you, nine out of 10 of our arguments are because he's he's hangry, he's he's hungry, and he's tired. And I will leave with that, ladies. Until next time, go chase joy.