Your Joyful Order With Leslie Martinez

#130- Faith In The Waiting with Carmen Meurer

• Leslie Martinez • Season 6 • Episode 130

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What do you do when life doesn’t unfold the way you prayed it would?

In this deeply tender episode of Your Joyful Order Podcast, Leslie sits down with Carmen Meurer to talk about the sacred and often painful space of waiting on God—especially in seasons marked by heartbreak, loss, and unanswered prayers.

Carmen shares pieces of her journey through family estrangement, the grief that comes with it, and the ways God has met her in the wilderness. Together, Leslie and Carmen explore what it looks like to cling to faith when healing feels slow, answers are unclear, and the future feels uncertain.

This conversation is for anyone walking through a difficult waiting season—whether it’s estrangement, broken relationships, loss, or simply trusting God for what’s next.

In this episode, we discuss:
• What faith can look like in the middle of unanswered prayers
• Navigating grief, rejection, and deep emotional pain
• Finding God’s presence in seasons of silence
• The importance of surrender when outcomes are out of your control
• Rebuilding hope and joy in unexpected seasons

Sometimes waiting isn’t wasted—it’s where God does some of His deepest work.

Connect with Carmen:
Website: carmenmeurer.com
Instagram: @carmencmeurer

Get her Devotional:
Carmen’s devotional, The Wilderness Between: A Journey for Parents Walking Through Estrangement 
(look for it on her website)

If this episode encouraged you, share it with a friend, leave a review, and subscribe so you never miss an episode.

Connect with Leslie:

Follow on IG: @yourjoyfulorderstyle

Website: https://shopjoyfulorder.com/

Email: lmartinez@yourjoyfulorder.com
to schedule- Speaking Events, Interviews or Life Coaching Sessions

Shop my SOAP Journal & Digital Products:
https://shopjoyfulorder.com/

Watch this Episode on You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsXoAYIM2mfclNtYiaOzIUw

Shop my Gratitude, Goals & Prayer Journal on Amazon:
https://a.co/d/09Djvaw

Welcome And The Big Question

SPEAKER_00

Hey friends, welcome back to your Joyful Order podcast. I'm your host, Leslie Martinez. Today's conversation is a deeply tender and powerful one. We're talking about something many of us experience but don't always know how to put it into words. And that's waiting on God in the middle of heartbreak. What do you do when life just doesn't turn out the way that you hoped? When prayers fill unanswered, when restoration hasn't come, when you're holding on to faith that the pain is still very real. My guest today, Carmen Muir, shares her personal story through estrangement from her daughter, a season that brought deep grief, rejection, and loss, but also a profound encounter with God's presence, his healing, and faithfulness in the waiting. If you've ever found yourself in a season where you're asking, God, where are you in all of this? Then this conversation is for you. Hey everyone, I'm Leslie Martinez, and you're listening to your Joyful Order podcast. Each week I will bring you joyful stories that will motivate and inspire you, but at the same time bring order to your everyday life. Let's just say this show will be a mixture of preaching and teaching with a kick of motivation from your girl here. Welcome to your Joyful Order podcast.

Finding Joy In A Hard Season

SPEAKER_00

Welcome back to your Joyful Order podcast. I am so honored to have Carmen with us today. So, Carmen, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Now, I have to, as before, before we like hit record here, I did your um intro, Carmen. And as we got on, I was like, wait a minute, I think I butchered her last name. So I'm gonna correct your last name here because I know I butchered it in the intro, but I want to welcome Carmen Murr to the podcast. Um, before we jump in, Carmen, I just I love to start on a high note, on a joyful note. So I want to know what is bringing you joy this season of your life.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's not the weather in Michigan. So um there's lots of other things though. Uh been just doing some fun things with neighbors throughout the winter, doing some water walking, um, enjoying nature. Uh, we love going out to eat and meeting new people and um traveling. So those are those are the main things.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. Now, are you guys still like lots of snow there in Michigan right now?

SPEAKER_01

The snow is actually gone. Oh now it's been it's it's 25 and raining.

SPEAKER_00

Oh wow. Which is odd. Well, here in SoCal, I think it was like 82 yesterday. Yeah. Uh so we we we've been having great weather. Although it is supposed to rain for us this weekend here in California. We have beautiful yeah, we have the April showers. But see, our rain is not 25 degrees, like it rains here and it's maybe in the 60s.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that sounds better.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, much better. Uh, but you got a beautiful lake by you. You're in Ann Arbor. Was it Ann Arbor?

SPEAKER_01

Um, in Holland. Oh, yes. I'm 15 minutes from Lake Michigan.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so you got beautiful.

SPEAKER_01

You're coming upon our good season.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I love it, love

Eleven Years Of Estrangement

SPEAKER_00

it. Well, Carmen, we have a very great topic to talk about today, which is just kind of like faith in the waiting. And I know this is a a topic that many listeners will be able to relate to. Is what do you do in the waiting? You're praying and believing for something, um, you're putting your faith in God that, you know, restoration and relationship will come, that your finances will have breakthrough, that you'll be healed, that there's so many things that we pray for and believe for, but this waiting season can be challenging for us. So that's kind of our topic for today. But before we really dive into um such a heavy topic, I want to know right now for you to just give us a little bit of your story. Tell us a little bit about yourself and the season that you're in in that waiting. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Well, um, my husband, my husband's retired uh this year. So um that's been a really fun new thing. I work part-time, but we love meeting new people, going out to eat, traveling, those kind of things that I mentioned. So we've been able to do more of that, which we totally enjoy. And, you know, can't wait to book the next, can't wait to book the next trip. So some some of those are the main things. I love photography. I love going out into nature and um just taking in God's beauty. Um, because it when I especially even on our trips too, um, it's just so amazing. We were out in Canada and Jasper and seeing you know all the burned trees. And, you know, there's just so so many things out there that um you just see God's presence and healing and all of those things. So I think that's those kind of things give, you know, give me hope. It give me a kind of a reason to keep going. Um, I have felt that way for a long time now, but there was a time that I really didn't too, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. So in the season that you're in right now, you're waiting for a big breakthrough from God. You've been in a rough kind of several years now, right? You've had uh a strange relationship with your daughter, and you've been just in that season of waiting and praying and believing for restoration. So can you speak just a little bit about that season that you're in?

SPEAKER_01

Sure. It's it's been 11 years since we've seen or heard from our daughter. And um, of course, that was very difficult in the beginning, but just as I am be sharing in the book that I'm writing, God met me there, you know, every day, every day when I was challenged with something or felt hopeless or didn't know what my next steps were because I wasn't a mother anymore, so to speak, you know. And he just met me in each one of those challenges, whether it was through another person, through a scripture I wrote, you know, nature, so many different things. So the devotional that I'm writing is a story, each story is a page of of hope, basically. How he brought me peace during a difficult time. And I wouldn't have been, I wouldn't have made it through without him, no way.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I bet. Now, you you and I, we came together through a discipleship program um that we connected, and we'll get into that a little bit later. But yeah, I think if I recall, you um you've been a believer for a very long time, right? Even before your estrangement with your Oh yes. Okay, yes, oh yes. So in going through this um this this season that you're in um of of waiting, I want to kind of go back a little bit to before the estrangement occurred with with your daughter in that what what your relationship looked like with God at that time um and versus your relationship with God now. And and and I wanna kind of paint a little bit of a picture here because I've I've shared openly, I have an estranged relationship with my father too. And I want to say, I think before the relationship um became estranged, my faith was weak. And even though I have not had restoration with my father, I look back over these like third, like nearly 30 years now that I've been estranged from my father. And I say that even though I haven't reconciled the relationship with my father, my faith is so much stronger. And I I want to know like what your evolution of your faith has been before, during, and where you're at now.

How Waiting Rebuilds Faith

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Oh, well, that's a good point. And I would say mine is definitely so much stronger now. Not that it I didn't think it was, but when you spend months on your knees, you know, begging to have something to look forward to and having him just meet you there, you know. I and then even through COVID too, it was like, you know, Jesus time in my chair, you know, two hours a day. Well, we don't all have an opportunity to do that every day. But I spent a lot of time there. I have tons of journal entries and tons of studies and books that I read. Um, and now looking back at them and through them as I've been writing my book, it's really just amazing. Um that I, you know, my my life is moving forward. I've been doing things to um give women hope in their challenging times ever since. And uh that that was his new mission for me.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, during during this time, what did you have to surrender in order just to keep trusting God?

SPEAKER_01

I'm not sure that I surrendered because I I was, oh I mean, I did. I just said, you have to give me something because I have no purpose. And I heard him very clearly say to me, just take one day at a time, one step at a time, because it was very overwhelmed. And so I started with baby steps of volunteering and um just a lot of different things. I ended up starting a nonprofit for women here in town locally that was part of Christine Kane's um Propel Women chapter, went on to do a nonprofit, and um, and now I'm writing this book. So each time when I something came to an end, he put the next thing right in front of me and has is just given me purpose in this time. And um, this will be really the first time that I'm sharing the estrangement story. The other things were just um for women who, you know, were having a rough time in any kind of circumstance. So this uh I had a friend who I told her that I wanted to write this and but I was afraid to, and she gave me the whole do not fear uh speech. So here I am trying not to live in fear.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. So during this time, in I I know with my estrangement with my father, and when I had asked, what did you have to surrender? Uh, there's so much I think you have we have to surrender for for me, and then this is what I want to ask.

Surrender Without A Timeline

SPEAKER_00

If if maybe you ever thought about this or felt led to like, God, I have to surrender this. First, I had to surrender my father completely to to God and say, God, I I can't change him. Only you can, you know. Um if it is intended for him to be a part of my life, I am surrendering that to him. But for for me, I had to surrender to not having a father. And that that that was hard for me. Yes. That that was very hard. It took me years of because there was always like that that hope, right? And we we want to believe, we want to have hope. And you don't want to get to that point where you say, you know what, I now have to maybe accept a reality that that may or may not be there. And I don't I don't want to crush any dreams. I am speaking for me personally. Yes. This is after like 30 something years again, where I just had to, I just kept surrendering my father. Lord, I give you my dad, soften his heart, open his eyes, let him surrender to you. I remember that was my prayer. And then I just had this crushing moment where I was journaling and I felt like I had to surrender, like having a relationship with my dad. And I said, I I I I don't want to keep being like crushed anymore, you know? And at this point, it's not about me having a relationship with him, it's about him having a relationship with God. And if that comes full circle to me, I feel that I just need to give up the idea of a relationship to wholeheartedly surrender my father to God, right? Has anything like that ever come across where you just are like, God, I I have to surrender?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I definitely surrendered her to him because you know, I know that I can't fix it. Yeah, and I know it's all gonna be in God's timing. So definitely, you know, this is I definitely surrendered, you know, God, this is this is more than I can handle. This is, you know, way beyond my control. It's not what I want. We had a great relationship our whole entire lives, um, up until then. And I know that he sees and knows that. And so I know that, you know, in his timing, things will change, but but I didn't feel that way all along. You know, that that there was a lot of surrendering, a lot of, you know, just reading about hope and trust. I mean, I just utterly trust him. There's just no other way, you know, you can uh kind of keep going with this for so long. And um, I've given, you know, placed her and her husband in his hands many, many times. And um that that is definitely feels like the only way, the only way you can do it, but it's it's peaceful. It it brings peace to me doing that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's that's so powerful. I especially just the idea of trusting God without having control over the outcome. Uh, and that's where the peace comes. It comes from our our faith in God and just being reminded like God, I'm gonna have peace about this. Because we we can't control what others' choices. Yeah, others' choices. And it it it's hard because we we want one outcome, but you know, something else is taking place and it's trusting God, trusting God in timing, trusting God in protection. And and it's not just protection of your loved one, but protection of yourself also. And I know like I had to remind myself of that many, many times is like clearly he's not the man that he needs to be to be in our life right now. Um, and I need to trust God in the timing and the molding and all of that. And if it is intended for him to be in our life, then God will allow it. But at this moment, it's you know, it's not there. And having um just that that trust is so uh, I guess like peaceful, right? Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, hearts have to be changed, and we you and I can't change them. Yeah, exactly. And so there's a lot of relief in in surrendering that and and and setting that free and just knowing that, you know, it's in hand and it's in his hands, and I want to be the carmen that I am. Um, not being sad. I want to be the per person who's happy and loves to be around people. And I finally had to, you know, beg for that again. It's like this isn't my burden to carry anymore.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes. And I I think that's a huge um shift in mindset when we realize this isn't for me to carry. It really is like a just like a weight taken off of you, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, totally.

Forgiveness As A Turning Point

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Now, was there a turning point for you, maybe where forgiveness played a role in that healing process also?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Um, I write that in one of my stories. I I read a book, The Book of Forgiving. And I went through a whole process. They they had a lot of um a lot of steps to take in in that book. And it wasn't just her, there was other people involved that were, I felt betrayal, outfit, I felt all kinds of different emotions. And um going going through that book the way I did was huge, huge for me. Um, because I felt really you feel really stuck if you can't forgive. And I didn't want to be stuck anymore.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Oh, I love that. Now, can you tell me a little bit about how you kind of navigated the grief and the rejection as a mother?

SPEAKER_01

Not well for a while. I guess you know, when you try everything, you know, this is your child, and you think it should be easy for you to reconnect and forgive each other and come back, and it's not. It wasn't, it hasn't been, but she's also got some control in other areas that I can't control. So um I think for me, it was just that little bit at a time, just saying, um, this isn't this isn't serving me well, it's it's not serving anyone else well. I want to move forward, be the person who I am, and and help impact other women in their journeys. And that brought me, you know, so much more peace and and hope. And uh, you know, I think it's always that way when you're uh connecting with with other people and their stories, and you can relate and share good things with them. That was just uh the the healing journey for me, I guess, um, which took a few years, a little bit at a time. But um now uh being writing this book for the first time, I'm hoping to, you know, not only get my story out, but yeah, just let people know that you know it wasn't easy for me either, but you can do it. Yeah, God's walking alongside you, and we can pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and and and really feel I feel you know very healed from that. And um, that that was huge.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, wow.

Practical Anchors For Dark Days

SPEAKER_00

Now, for someone listening right now who just feels like they're barely holding on, similar to you, they're they're walking through a rough season and just really holding on to hope right now. What were more some of the like practical things that helped you stay anchored in your faith? If you can give prime examples, you know, I I know one of them you mentioned about writing your devotion, but what were some other more practical things that really helped you?

SPEAKER_01

Well, one big thing I talk about too in my book is that I had to stop talking about it. And that was keeping me down. You know, I had some really close friends that rode the journey with me, but we got to the point where, you know, if you're just if you're just hanging on by a thread and you don't know what to do, and you keep talking about it and thinking about it, you're not gonna become free of that. If it felt like bondage, you know, it felt like there's chains there. And so I just needed to change what I talked about. I needed to start believing, talking about, I'm gonna believe that this will change in the right time. Um, you know, speaking some of the scriptures as truth and just really changing my attitude. Another part of it was changing my Facebook feed, right? You know, you're you're seeing things that are negative, and I wanted to get anything out of that feed and put all you know Christian uh people that I would follow, and um, just lots of different things like that, things that would bring me joy. Uh, I would just you know dig into those things all the time, and that's really I have this little postcard hold on to feels what feels like sunshine, and I colored this years ago, and I still have it because I did a whole journal entry about what's gonna make me feel good, and I made a list and I just started doing all that stuff, and slowly, you know, slowly you work your way out of it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, now did you get any type of like professional counseling or support also?

SPEAKER_01

I

Therapy, EMDR, And Body Pain

SPEAKER_01

did, yes. I had lots of counseling over the years, but I think that the best uh counseling I ended up with was EMDR therapy. That was kind of a kind of my last one and kind of a final final closure that I think even helped my body heal because I had tons of body pain and things like that too, from being in that suffering for so long. Yeah. So, you know, I had to go on depression medication that I had never had to do before. But you need to fix yourself, and you don't want you just you don't want this to ruin your life.

SPEAKER_00

I I've talked about uh this before. Even uh I did an episode a couple uh a few back, I think like four or five episodes back about forgiveness and actually what it does to your your body as well. Like it it's not just a mental and spiritual attack against us, but it starts to change our physiology. It starts to impact our brain, our thinking. Um, and then it starts to, you know, age us in internally. Yeah. So a lot of that, and that's where, you know, you had mentioned you you had to forgive, and that that was a big part of it. But carrying the weight of it, it does start to, you know, expose itself uh physically in our bodies and learning how to do that. I'm so glad that you shared with getting outside support. Um, it's not just praying and believing and those things. It is there's there's people that God put in our path to help us because we we can't just do it by ourselves.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I had I I remember one month of December that I was on the couch the whole month. I was in such body pain, I I couldn't move. And why, you know, I mean, it went away, but there was a book I read about issues in your tissues too, but that's like another story. So so yeah, I mean, I just you know, I wanted to move on, I wanted to be better, and I looked for any any resource that I that I could because I knew I had a lot to live for.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

The California Wrist Break Story

SPEAKER_00

Now, going back a little bit too, and this is where maybe we can share a little bit about our um connection story, because yeah, we you and I, we both did Christine Kane's uh the Propel uh Discipleship program. And we were in the same cohort together. And Carmen and I had like a crash course of bonding uh one night, yes. Uh so Carmen, Carmen, she we're talking about you raining and being in California or being in Michigan. So Carmen's first visit to California for our discipleship like kickoff. It's it's three days of what do we call it? Like it's like a conference, basically, right? Yeah, yeah. I'd say yeah. So we had like a three-day conference. So uh Carmen's here for the first time, California. It is pouring rain. This was two, has it been no, how many years has it been now? Two years now, right? Yeah, two years ago. I think we had like an El Nino hit and it was just crazy rain. Carmen had an unfortunate incident. Uh you want to share what happened to you, Carmen?

SPEAKER_01

The afternoon that we arrived in in California, um, we were I was getting dropped off to my Airbnb and I slipped and fell on the porch and broke my wrist. Yes. It was before the conference even started. And I was headed to an Airbnb that I had rented for myself alone and broke my right wrist, which is my which is my dominant hand. Yes, and couldn't do anything for myself.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. So and then and you also were in a unfortunate Airbnb.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Yes, that's that's another story. I I wanted out anyway, but that gave me the reason to leave.

SPEAKER_00

So so Carmen showed up to our event with a broken wrist, not knowing it was broken. Not knowing that yet. Not knowing it was broken, just thinking that she really hurt her wrist.

SPEAKER_01

Um slowly swelling and swelling.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. And she sat through an entire day of worship, of speaking, of breakouts. And I remember our first, like when we first met, you had ice on your hand, and we're like, what happened? And yeah, she's like, uh, I fell and I slipped. Um, and then later that night we created a group chat and we find out that Carmen is in the ER and she got an x-ray and it's broken. So then she shows up the next day fully cast in a sling, and she can't do anything. And she had shared that she uh was in a horrible situation at her Airbnb. It was a room and she didn't get much sleep and all this stuff. So um Carmen came and became my roommate for that night in my hotel. I was begging anybody to take me in. I couldn't brush my teeth, I couldn't get can you help me wash my hair and get dressed? So I I came to Carmen's aid and uh welcomed her into my uh hotel room. Thank god I had two beds. I know. I would have brought you in even if I had one and said, Carmen, we just met and we're gonna sleep together for the first night. Yep. I normally required a paid dinner for that at least, but for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Uh but I wasn't in shape to do it when I was there, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Uh so Carmen and I had a crash course of um some some very intimate um bonding of what we didn't know would be the next several months of continued bonding though in our group. Um so I do want to speak to that though, and that's where I was trying to say, like, okay, did did going through that help you at all also? Because I I know it helped me in my faith walk, not necessarily like with my um circumstance with my father, you know, in going through the discipleship program. But I think that that was just like a huge component to my faith. So do you feel that walking through that, like how did that shape you in all of this?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I mean, between that and the whole conference, it was it was, you know, just so amazing. Um, I think I I was just going through some of the papers that we did the other day because I was using some of the stuff in my journal, and I just remember um one of Christine Kane's messages when we were at the one church. Um, but really just you know, to be together um with all women that you're kind of in the same shoes with a little bit, but not getting to know each other and hearing about everybody's faith and and all the great teachings that we did. I mean, I want to go again. I mean it's so cool, and to be able to still stay in touch with everybody a little bit too. I just uh it was just uh a very heartwarming experience to to find this lovely lady who would take me in. But um, I mean, really, I was just bombing in on someone. So, but I mean, it's it's it's just so great to be surrounded by women of faith who are you know sharing uh good things and um learning together. Was just talking about our rocks the other day. Remember, we had to write a the first day, and my word was sanctuary. I kind of wrote a whole thing about that afterwards too.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, yeah, just yeah, my my word was hope that I painted on my rock. Well, it was. Yeah, I think so. And and I I remember um and see, like it for me in this whole uh faith journey and and waiting on God, I think there was so much clarity for me in going through that that season of the of the cohort. Um in a lot of like the speakers and the messages and even just the coaching, there was a shift in my view and perspective of a lot of things uh relating to like culture, diversity, inclusion. Um like so so many, so many different things of uh really opening my eyes to how Jesus Jesus views people. And it really allowed me to it it actually started a fire in me where I wanted to start learning more of the theology of scripture as opposed to just like the feel-good stuff of scripture, you know. A lot of times we read scripture and it's like, oh, this is great. It's like that motivational quote, you know? But then it it kind of kicked off of like, no, I want to understand how this was written. I wonder, I want to understand the context, the theology behind this. And that's when I started to really unravel scripture and text to what was truly being said, and it's not always the motivational, inspirational quotes that we think. There's there's meaning and intention behind digging deeper into the story. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

I remember laying in the beds, you telling me about all the Bibles you had and all these different versions. And I'm like, I have an NIV, you know, that's all I got. And I came home and I ordered on Amazon all the different versions. And I remember you telling me you'd lay them all out when you were writing things, and I have all kinds of different versions um in the book that I'm writing too. And my editor said, Well, can you make them all one? And then you don't have to list them every time. I'm like, No. I came so you awakened me to a lot of that, plus um changing the alarm on my phone, remember?

SPEAKER_00

That's just a crazy thing, but I I gave Carmen a crash course on some uh just like iPhone uh little hacks there. Yeah. Oh, I I don't I don't even remember about the uh sharing the Bible stuff with you. I remember the alarm thing. Yeah, well, maybe that could have been after we were back home, maybe it could have been too. But well, I'm glad I I kind of shared that with you. But and that's where like there was there were so many different takeaways from that. But but I I think overall connection and uh really just growing our faith in a different way to having, you know, opening our eyes and having different perspectives. Um and you you had shared through that a little bit of your relationship, uh, your estranged relationship. And uh I I think it was still very heavy on your heart at that time. Um so you you can tell it it, you know, it it hit very hard. You were still kind of in the thick of processing all of that. But now seeing um you now and even the fact that that discipleship, that season that we were in where you were, you know, processing a lot of the stuff and carrying, that now what kind of evolved from that is this devotion that you've written for parents with the strange relationships. Uh

A Devotional For Estranged Parents

SPEAKER_00

so I want you, I know you've touched a little bit about it, but I want you to give us details of it, Carmen. Tell us what's inside this book that and remind me, is it out yet or is it coming out?

SPEAKER_01

No, it's in the hands of my editor still. Okay, okay. Um, I just wrote the the last devotion this week, actually. So um it's in the hands of my editor, but um really what I try to do in this devotional, I well, for one, I made it 28 days. Um, and I did that because I wanted it to be a multiple of seven, because seven is used so many times in the Bible for creation and forgiveness and those kind of things. So that's how I landed at that number. And I wanted it to be something that didn't need to be read in a certain order because I don't like devotions that I have to follow along day by day, and then I miss one, and then I feel bad about myself and whatnot. So I kind of start by saying, read this at your own pace, any page, any order. And just, you know, because each one's a different subject, um, maybe that subject is what you're challenged with that particular day. You know, I have uh I my first one starts with Father's Day, you know, um, how we how we felt on Father, well, Mother's Day too, but Father's Day and Mother's Day every year without, I mean, um, our daughter is our only child, so there's no other children in our life. And so um, you know, I I speak into that. I, you know, talk about a few things when she was uh younger, the different opportunities I had throughout. I was asked to be a mentor mom in my church during that time, and I was like, what? Yeah, so um there's just you know, all different scenarios that came along that that I questioned or I was having a hardship. And when someone or something brought brought brought came to me from God, uh how it just kind of re renewed my strength and and kept me going. And so I think the the bottom line of the reason I'm doing it is because I want someone to feel like they have someone next to them on their journey with this, because it feels very alone. You don't usually know other people that are close to you in that situation, and you know, my friends got tired of talking about it, yeah. And you know, I could understand that too. I think that's a lesson that I learned in empathy, uh as well along the way. And I think I've become more empathetic because I knew what I needed and I wasn't getting it. So not to not to place blame, but you're just you know, when you're you're in a crushed situation. So yeah, I just have uh just each one is just a diff different story. Might have been a you know, a Bible study I was doing, like one of mine is calling uh called Seeing Beauty in the Ashes. Um, so they're all kind of scripture-based, and you know, I talk about how getting away is good, uh, just a lot of different things that were were journeys along the way for me that I feel like was, you know, I remember in church one time they do that jar where, you know, these pebbles, you know, you got these boulders and these little pebbles, you know, they're all these little pebbles of things that added up that helped fill my bucket again, really. And so I just needed to keep moving forward with those things. And so when I dig back the journals now, if if someone's in my shoes that I was in so long ago, and I can have them feel like they are understood, uh, their feelings are understood, and there's somebody that is uh that they might feel like they know by reading me, because by reading, because I am pretty myself. Um, you know, I I just have my website underway and I um I haven't put this on there yet, but I want to invite people to be able to email me because I know sometimes you just want to talk to somebody that's in those shoes, and I don't want to be someone that's behind this big door that you can't crack. Um, because I I did a blog a while ago and I I had people reaching out to me all the time, and so I'm no counselor by any means, but but I just want people to uh you know feel good, feel confident that they're not alone and um that someone kind of sees sees their heart hurting and loves them.

SPEAKER_00

Oh that's so beautiful, Carmen. Thank you for that. I'm excited to support you and look at your um devotion when it comes out. I would love to get a copy and be able to, you know, kind of read it through myself too. I'm it shared my story of rejection and all that, and it's it's it's very different, you know, as far as like the the perspective of what it was um written for. I'm on the flip side of it. However, I'm sure that there can be so much value in in that for so many different people that are, you know, not just in a really uh a strange relationship too, but just in that season of waiting. I want you to close with this, Carmen.

Hope When The Outcome Is Unknown

SPEAKER_00

What what would you say to someone that is, you know, in that season of waiting? And what does trusting God's goodness look like when the outcome is still unknown for you? What would you say to that person?

SPEAKER_01

Well, number one, hang in there. Just you have to just keep going. Um, things are gonna get better. Do things that that you love too, so that you're not buried in just the hurt all the time. I mean, it's it still hurts me too, you know. I'm around my friends and their their kids and their grandkids for a while. I couldn't do that. Now I now I can um just be you, live live your life the way that you would always did, and try not to let this affect your everyday, because it it does for a long time. I get that. Um, but you have a lot of you to live. Yeah. Oh, I love it. And so if you can get the help that you need, medications you need, um, whatever, join groups. There are Facebook groups that talk about estrangement that I've been a part of. I really don't follow them anymore, but they were helpful for a while. Um, just do anything that you can to surround yourself with with good things that are reminding you of it constantly.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, that's so good. And I I think it's important to know too that there are different kind of phases to it. At least that's how I've I've experienced and that you need to seek what you need in that season too. Like, you know, counseling, a support group, you kind of move on from that, you know. You you got what you need in that season, and it it helps you to kind of fill that void in that season of what you need. Um, definitely, yeah. And and over 30 years, there's so many different things that uh have helped me fill that void. Like you said, that base of the rocks, like you're just filling the rock. Like in this season, I need this. In this season, I need this. So uh well, Carmen. And it's okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's okay to need those things. Yes, yes, it's normal.

SPEAKER_00

I I I wanna say I wanna say this, and and I hope that the listeners hear me on this. It it's not okay to not need something, if that makes sense. Like you just trying to go at this alone, and trying to just say, like, I'm it no, I we're putting all our faith in God, we're putting all of it there, yes. But you can't do it alone. God has created us to be in community to help and love and support each other as you put your trust fully on Him, but you can't do this alone. It's it's very difficult. And and pending where you know the listeners where you are, you it may not be that you're estranged or rejected, but you're you're waiting. But look for help. Even just you listening to this podcast is a way to, you know, kind of fill fill a little rock in there of what you need and take what you can. Um, so Carmen, this has been such a meaningful conversation. Thank you for your heart. Thank you for your vulnerability. I know we, you know, this is a difficult subject to talk about and still fresh and emotions rise and stuff, but I just thank you for your obedience to being open um for conversations about this. Sure. And thanks for having me. Oh, yes, no,

Where To Find Carmen And The Book

SPEAKER_00

for sure. But can you share with the listeners where they can find you and um maybe what the time frame of when your book will be out?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the first the the easiest place to find me is probably gonna be my website, which is CarmenMurr.com. And I'm sure Leslie will put that in the show notes. Um, my book is gonna be called is called The Wilderness Between Stories of Hope for Parents on the Journey of Estrangement. Um, like I said before, it's in the editor's hands now. I have an artist who has designed the cover and the pages, um, which I'm really looking forward to being able to share with people. Um, hoping for a Father's Day release, which would be super cool that because the first story is about Father's Day. I'm not quite sure yet if we'll be able to hit that target, but somewhere in that, somewhere in that uh early summer area is when it sounds like it will be out. And so if you do on my website, you can subscribe if you would like to for updates. That's good. I'm keeping everybody kind of, I mean, I'm not maybe every three weeks or something sending an email on uh what's happening and so forth. And so um, you can certainly do that there if you'd like.

SPEAKER_00

Awesome. I can't wait. And Carmen, can I just say I'm so proud of you? Like I having having known the story of what you started sharing two years ago and your obedience to releasing this book, I am just I'm so proud of you and I'm so excited for this book. I I know it's like birthing something into the world.

SPEAKER_01

Uh so people tell me my editor said this is so needed. In fact, someone gave me a scholarship to start working with her when she told them what I was writing about. So that was kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So see, God already is opening the doors for you in that. Um well, again, thank you so much, Carmen.

Final Encouragement And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00

And to you, my friends that are listening to this conversation today, if you are in a season of waiting, I just want to remind you that God is not absence in your silence. He is so present with you right now. Um, he's present in your process. He is nearer to you in your pain, uh, and he's still working even when you can't see it. So if this podcast has been encouragement to you, will you just take a moment and share it with a friend, leave a review or subscribe to the podcast because it truly helps this message to get out to more women uh who just need it. So if you haven't connected with me, make sure that you follow me over on Instagram or visit my website for more resources. There are free digital resources and workbooks up on my website, shopdorefulorder.com, and all the show notes for uh you to connect with Carmen. You can find everything there in the show notes, all the links. And until next time, friends, keep tasting joy. Bye.